I have an 18 year old Morgan mare who was confirmed bred by palpation at 2 1/2 months. She is supposed to foal around the 30th of June. She has had all of the vet care required over the term and has been well fed and cared for. She does not look pregnant at all. Her abdominal size does not appear to have changed. She has not developed an udder but when stimulated, milk is easily expressed. The glands in front of her udder have been quite enlarged for at least two months. There has been no evidence of any early abortion. My vet says that she has seen maiden mares small like mine, but mine is not a maiden mare. She gave birth 4 years ago at another farm. Have you ever heard of a mare producing milk when not pregnant? Is it possible for a mare to have a false pregnancy so true to term. Should I be concerned about a tiny, weak foal? My vet says I should let nature take its course, but I don't want to be up every night for nothing, and if she is not carrying a foal, what is with the milk? Is it possible there is some strange hormonal issue? Help!!
Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 04:41 pm:
I have had mares that did not look pregnant. She may go a bit longer than other mares, and foal just fine.
I found that mares with longer backs do not show as large as the shorter backed mares. I would suspect that with the udder developement and milk present, she is pregnant. Let us know the outcome!
The vet came yesterday and did a palpation. She said that the uterous is thick but she can feel the ovaries. She said she was not in foal. I am totally blown away. She still has milk and acts very unlike her usual self, labored breathing, lengthy naps, etc. I just can't figure it out. Hard to believe the vet could be wrong at this stage.
Posted on Sunday, July 01, 2001 - 03:06 pm:
A mare is not considered safely in foal until 90 days. It is very possible that she has aborted ( absorbed) the pregnancy. You may consider an ultrasound the next time. It will help determine the condition of the uterus etc., as well as confirm a pregnancy. It can sure help to aviod the disappiontment and concern that you are now facing.
I would also suggest the use of Regumate to maintain a pregnancy in the older mare that may tend to abort early on. It is expensive, and must be used for up to 120 days. It is well worth the extra effort. You still have time to breed her this year. This time, stack the deck in your favor, and leave no doubt. Good Luck.
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 12:28 pm:
I have a 14 year old mare in which I have bred twice with the first breeding being unsuccesful, we bred her again and I find out tomorrow if she is in foal, but I can't wait, my question is tomorrow is day 16 since she was bred, Sunday and Monday she was out in the pasture winking at my gelding, but has since not showed any signs on heat, do you think that she just realized this week that she is in foal or was this another unsuccessful breeding????
Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2001 - 12:52 pm:
Some mares will show to be in heat even if they are bred. I have a mare here now, that must be ultrasounded every time because of that very thing. At least you won't have to wait long for your answer!
Posted on Monday, July 30, 2001 - 11:07 am:
Well just to let you know my mare did not conceive. We are not sure what the problem is, She has been bred and ovulated at about the same time and has been given the HCG shot at the time of being bred. Can anyone give me their opionon as to what is going on, and should I try again, it is getting late in the season to be breeding????
I have a 9yr.old Appaloosa mare that I have tried to get in foal since she was 5 years old and have never succeeded. Upon palpation she has been diagnosed as perfectly capable of conceiving. She cycles regularly, never has any discharge and is a healthy mare. She has had a cervical biopsy done and was found to have slight infection everytime she is bred. We have flushed the uterus and done everything the ver recommends. Still no pregnancy. Well now, we bred her June 21st covering her only one time during her cycle, and she has not returned to heat. I really don't want to have her palped or ultra sounded because if there is the slight chance she did take I don't want anything interfering. Is there any other way to determine pregnancy other than by ultra sound, palpation and stallion teasing? Also, I'm wondering if I do determine pregnancy, should I put her on Regumate?
Posted on Saturday, August 04, 2001 - 02:24 pm:
Sandy- ultrasound will not interfere with the pregnancy. It is this most decisive way to confirm a pregnancy.
Regumate is usually started within 5 days post breeeding. Regumate is also expensive, and I would want a pregnancy confirmed before starting that program.
It is late in the year, and your mare could be shutting down, if not pregnant. Why keep yourself in suspense?!
Well, I have ordered a pregnancy test that is done with a few drops of the mare's blood. It will be sent tomorrow (Monday), and is being over-nighted so I guess I will find out for sure Tuesday. It's just with all of the problems I have had trying to get this mare to conceive, I really don't want anything entering her body. I had no idea that Regumate would be started that soon. And I have heard about how expensive it is. But I figure if she is in foal, she is about 50 days. I seriously doubt that she has shut down, because I have bred her clear into Sept. before. Like I said, I have been breeding this mare continuously for approx. 5 years, and she has never done this before. So, I'm keeping my fingers crossed!
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 01:49 am:
I'm keeping my fingers crossed too! It sounds like you know your mare well.
Well, blood PMSG test came back negative. So I decided to have her ultrasounded the next day, and that is also negative. No pregnancy. But he did say there was a good possibility that she had been pregnant and reabsorbed the fetus. He said according to what he could see, she should be returning to heat within a week. Everything felt and looked normal, no fluid in the uterus, nothing abnormal. I had him check her file to tell me what grade her uterus is and it is a 2A. So, what does that tell me her chances are for carrying a foal to term, EVER? This is so frustrating.
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 09:17 am:
Sandy- I am glad that you followed up with an ultrasound. The PMSG test can give a false negative early on. It sounds to me as if you have a very good chance of having a foal out of this mare.
I will suggest that this time, you start on Regumate right away. You can ultrasound at 16 days. If she is in foal, you will need to continue for 120 days.
2A is not bad. When was that biopsy taken? If it was last years, I would be concerned that it has not progressed. All in all, I think you have good chance. I know how frustrated you are! Hang in there. You just need to cover all the bases this time. Good luck
Posted on Friday, August 10, 2001 - 09:48 am:
Sandy- It's me again! By "covering all the bases", this is what I meant; #1. Ultrasound prior to breeding to insure that follicles are forming and developing. #2. Infuse as if there were infection prior to breeding and once between covers. Wait 12 hours before covering. #3. HCG shot at last cover to insure ovulation #4. Check post breeding for fluid clearance. Use of Oxytocin may be in order. #5. Start on Regumate and ultrasound at or around 16 days. If pregnant, continue for 120 days.
I realize that this sounds like a lot of work. But, you have waited so long, and spent some money already, why not do all that you can? Good Luck!
Kelly, The 2A uterus was determined approx. 4 years ago. Even my vet said that there must be something more than just a 2A uterus going on with this mare, just because of the fact I have tried so diligently to get her in foal. We have tried infusing her and flushing before, but, it was done only after breeding, we have never tried before and during breeding. I have been thinking that that is probably the best way to go. Of course my vet thinks I keep breeding her for only "recreational purposes" as he puts it. It's very discouraging. I'm beginning to think I need to find a vet who is more in tune with reproduction. The only problem I have with starting on Regumate after breeding is: How do I know she even settled? There is really no way to determine whether I am wasting money with that until, as you said, at least 16 days after. I guess it's just kind of a chance you take huh? Well, I guess I should be grateful that I have 3 mares here that have been confirmed in foal for next year, but I sure would love to have a foal some day out of my favorite horse.
Posted on Sunday, August 12, 2001 - 12:24 am:
Sandy- I understand why you would like to have a foal from this mare. Your reasons are your own and no one elses business.
I agree with you, the vet should be more aware of what your needs are. He should have informed you of all the protocols open to you. It does not sound to me as if he is very well informed himself.
If you are intent on having a foal from this mare, I would suggest looking into a more interested repro. vet. The longer you wait, the harder it may be. With all the tools available in the field of repro., I wouldn't say that you have an impossible situation
Kelly, Thank you for the reassurance, I sure hope I will be able to get a foal from her some day. At this point, considering the lateness of the season, I will probably wait until next spring, and I am definitely going to follow your suggestions!!
Posted on Tuesday, August 14, 2001 - 12:23 am:
Sandy, I sympathise with your situation. I still think you have time to try your mare this season. A July foal is not a late one, unless you live in Siberia!. Some mares require just plain old natural circumstances. (Pasture breeding). See if this is a possibility with the stallion owner, and if not, even a lesser stallion would do just to get her going. Some mares just need this. We get so frustrated trying to get them PG we try all kinds of suggested hormones and treatments to accomplish this. I think there is way too much intervention in a lot of the cases I read about. I am not cutting down repro. vets, sometimes mares really do need these extensive measures. But the more biopsies, flushing and in general messing around that is done, is sometimes making the uterus a more hostile and unfriendly environment for PG to take place. And then to add all these hormomes, well I will put it this way, a mares hormones are continually changing at a rapid pace and it is very difficult to mimmick each individual mares hormones much less if all mares were identical all the time. Questions. Do you use the same stallion, and does he have a clean bill of health? Have you ever tried wheat germ oil as it is a wonderful pregnancy conditioner. Try not to have a heavy heart, as maybe you only need a new approach. Best wishes to you Sandy.
Sandy- If you don't decide to continue breeding this year (I just bred my own mare last week- welcome to the late breeder's club), I would strongly think a new biopsy would be in order. 4 years is a long time, especially when you are talking about the difference between a 14 year old and an 18 year old. A lot can change, and it might be a big money saver to know what you are up against. Have you checked her thyroid levels? Even if she doesn't look hypothyroid, it's worth testing an older mare. As for Regumate, I routinely put our older mares that have a history of early loss on Regumate 5 days post ovulation. So much of the time they can be pregnant and lose it before we even can detect the pregnancy. Again, it can save money in the long run. Good luck to you- and don't lose faith! Julie
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2001 - 11:17 pm:
Lynn, I think I will probably wait until next year, considering I already have 3 mares that have been confirmed in foal and I actually try to only have two foals a year, (so I can spend good quality time with them). As far as pasture breeding goes, yes I have considered that and that has been recommended to me several times. It really wouldn't be a problem with the stallion owner, considering I am the stallion owner The first time I knew I had a prob with this mare getting in foal was before I owned my own stallion and I had taken her to an outside stallion. Well, that's when we had the biopsy done, and my vet said she was developing an allergic reaction to the stallion's semen and he highly recommended that I use a different stud. So therefore, that is when I purchased my own stud. Needless to say, that didn't seem to make a diff. But pasture breeding is becoming more and more an idea to me for next year.
I read your discussion with great interest. In May this year my (maiden)mare was covered by a stallion, however about three weeks later she started to show signs of coming back into season (heavy discharge, winking)however unlike the previous occasion she was totally (agressively)unreceptive to the stallion. She is due to be tested by the vet in a couple of weeks.Any advice/ information?
Noble Knight (184.108.40.206)
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2001 - 03:58 pm:
Hi Pamela, I have seen mares come into a false heat the "cycle" after they were bred. The mares had mild discharge, winking, and a few even started producing a little milk after 2 weeks. I've also heard of mares standing for a stallion when PG but have never witnessed such. If she was receptive to the stallion and bred while PG, you would have most likely lost the foal she was carrying.
I have had a few calls from mare owners with the same concerns/situation after being bred. I always recommend that the mare have an ultrasound 16 to 18 days after the last day of her heat. Most vets are quite reasonable for the service and it will save time and worry for both horse owners as well as unnecessary and possibly violent interaction between the horses.
If she was aggressively unreceptive to the stallion in the last two days of this "heat", she is probably pregnant (assuming she only had the signs of cycling that one time after being bred).
I hope she is in foal and all goes well for you Pamela.
Posted on Sunday, August 26, 2001 - 12:50 pm:
Pamela, Has she only shown signs of heat the one time after being bred? If she has shown signs consistently every three weeks since that time, then I would say your chances for pregnancy are pretty slim. I too have heard of mares continuing to show signs of "heat" while they are in foal, but I have never seen it myself. If it was just the one time, and considering she is a maiden mare, she could be in foal, and just reacted to the teasing of the stallion by exhibiting the winking and discharge. But I would definitely not let the stallion cover her until you confirm whether she is in foal or not. Good Luck.
Posted on Monday, September 03, 2001 - 04:20 pm:
Thanks for the advice Noble Knight and Sandy
Megan, my mare, only came into season once after she was bred. I'll find out if she is expecting within the next week, so fingers crossed!
Also, perhaps you can advise me about weight gain as she is looking particularly round, though I suspect the reduction in exercise has led to a grass belly..at most she would only be 15 weeks.
Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2001 - 12:00 pm:
Pamela - As you have probably gathered from previous posts, it is entirely possible for a mare to be settled and to still show "in" to a stud. At this time in the year, it would not be a surprise for her to be shutting down either.
If by chance, she is not in foal, it would be best to have her fit ( weight wise ) before breeding next year. Over weight mares do not concieve as readily as fit mares will. If she is indeed pregnant ( finger crossed! )keep her fit within reason. You will want to supplement her feed during the last 30 days in preparation for her foal. Keep us posted.
I have an 18 year old arabian mare. She has had one foal. She was bred early June. The vet gave us the option of putting her on regumate or not. We deciced to do it. He said we could stop at 75 days? We decided to finish the bottle and she is at 90 days now. Can we safely stop?
Posted on Monday, September 10, 2001 - 05:24 pm:
Lynn- If your vet has done a progesterone essay on your mare, and is basing his decision on that, he would be best informed to explain his reasoning to you.
However, if not, I recommend that you follow the protocol that calls for 90- 120 days on Regumate. Personally, with an 18 year old mare that is 90 days along, I would not chance it. Why not go the full 120 and leave no doubt? After all, you have gone this far, and another 30 days is only a matter of a bit more money. Your decision to continue the Regumate was a good one, based on the information that you have supplied. Good luck with your mare.
lynn oppenheim (220.127.116.11)
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 12:05 pm:
Kelly thank you for your response. My next question is- after 120 days can you just stop the regumate? Thanks Lynn
Posted on Wednesday, September 12, 2001 - 12:55 pm:
Lisa LH (18.104.22.168)
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 01:09 am:
Okay ladies, I just found this chat site and have been glued to my screen for an hour! I'm dying to know if Pamela's mare (msg dated 9/3/01)settled?!?! What a cliffhanger... don't leave the rest of us hanging!!!
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 02:26 pm:
I have a quick question for you guys, I bred my mare twice last summer and was told that she did not conceive, I opted to wait until this year to try again as it was getting late to be breeding. Lately, she seems to be putting on weight. I also checked her udder and it seems to be slightly larger than in the summer. She would only be approx 7 months going by the last time that we bred her. What are your opinions? I don't want to call the vet incase he thinks I am doubting his capabilities, and thinks that I am crazy!!!
Posted on Sunday, January 20, 2002 - 11:25 pm:
Call a different vet. If your vet thinks you are crazy SO WHAT, It's your horse. It is totally possible that she is bred.
Posted on Wednesday, January 23, 2002 - 07:39 am:
Have you guys had any experience with a mare who believed she was pregant when she wasn't but showed all the signs, udder bagged up, weight gain etc.
Well I am new to horse breeding and have been anixously waiting for the past two years for my FIRST foal>.
This is the sinario! Mare was left to be pasture bred with a stallion from Early July till Late October! No signs of return heat! Had the vet out today he said he could NOT feel any foal but her Uterus had fluid in it, she was not at all very cooperative, she was wiggly alot, he said she could still be bred , but not as far as I suspected!
Call me Crazy ( inexperinced) whats with the fluid in the uterus , and is there not a period when the foal is hiding that a vet can miss the baby?
I just purchased a 16 year old Quarterhorse Mare and I believe that she might have been bred. The previous owner told me that she had just recently lost a foal and that they had her palpated and to make sure she was no longer pregnant, but now her tummy has gotten larger and her milk sac has begun to enlarge and she is getting a milk vein. There is also clear liquid coming from her teats when squeezed. I would appreciate all the info that anyone can give me.
Hi, I have a Arab Mare that was purchased at 43 days preg, we then traveled her by truck 7 days across Aust to her new home. She arrived in very poor condition and she never got very big in the belly and showed signs of heating towards our two stallions, we decided she must have absorbed or slipped while in travel and never thought anymore about it until this week, she has suddenly started getting a large v shape belly, the muscles around tail are relaxed, cranky to handle and we can easily express milk from her teats (Slightly Cloudy with granules but thin) although she has no real bag there. Is it possible that she is still producing some milk from her last foal?, as she was bred back to back or could she still be preg. She would be due to foal this month. Any advice would be helpful. Thankyou
Thanks Lisa, Where would I look to see foal movement best?? I think I can see a rolling action around the flank area and up higher towards her back, any ideas if this is foal movement or not? Also is it normal for a broodmare to have milk in teats, yet her bag is hanging but seems pretty empty, shes had a few foals before!(droopy looking)
Katherine, It certailny sounds as though your mare is still pregnant! Some mares will show heat through pregnancy, or she could have even been being submissive to your stallions. Around her flanks, or just infront of her udder is the best place to feel for foal movement. When she has just gone for a run, is drinking or eating is the best time to try to feel for movement. But it is very distinct, if you feel a foal, you wont mistake it! Your mare may just be starting to bag up, watch her bag and if it starts to increase in size, then this is a good indicator that she is preparing to foal. Do you know when she would be due?
Thanks Renee, She was due to foal mid Nov. around the 17th I think. She has very relaxed muscle today either side of her back bone,as well as over the croup, it is very soft to touch and wobbles when she walks, still no real bag but still milk in teats, I read on the net about taste testing the milk and checking for colour etc, so went down and tried that out, yes yes I no desperate aren't I, anyhow its very cloudy now, still runny and taste like salt??? Oh and she is yawning heaps.
If she is changing shape, and getting all soft in the rear end, then she is starting to prepare herself for foaling. Keep an eye on her udder, although this isnt always the best indication. But if it gets full and very tight, then she should foal in the next 24hours. I am not sure about the whole taste part of the milk, i have never been brave enough to do that, but when the milk goes white and looks like milk, she is ready. Some mares do this really quickly though, and before you know it there is a foal on the ground! My mares udder formed overnight, milk was white within an hour after me checking her, and she had little colt about two hours later! Is she a maiden mare?
I have a pony mare that I've had since march 2005, and she has never come into heat and this last month she has gotten bigger around her belly and she's swelling near her udders. We took her to the vet today and said, she's not pregnant. Can an ultra sound be wrong??? She really does look pregnant.
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