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Is breeding a mare with navicular syndrome safe?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 1 » Is breeding a mare with navicular syndrome safe? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Paintluver
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know a girl who has a seventeen year old grade mare with navicualar disease. She has bad conformation and is very obese. Also, she has never been bred before. She has a lot of pain in the morning and even has trouble walking! They plan to breed her to a Halflinger stud in May. Is this safe?
 

Cashgurl
Posted on Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This IS very dangerous. I know a girl who's mare was bred who had navicular disease. She ended up putting the mare down. Tell the girl to read the January isssue of the Paint horse journal if available.
 

nikki
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2001 - 11:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just purchased a mare with navicular, who was bred before I purchased her. We decided to buy her because of her gentle disposition, out of all the other horses we looked at.
She is 11 years old and registered with acceptional blood lines, and was very low cost, as her owners knew of her disease. I was told that navicular syndrome is not genetic, and is uncurable.
I am in love with this mare and feel lucky to own her even if it is for a limited time.
How long does it take for this disease to progress on average.
My farrier is not concerned, she is so healthy in every other way. She recommends for me to ride regularly to keep this disease under control. She also compared it to tennis elbow on us humans.
Well thank you for your information. Good day to you.
 

quinquin
Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2001 - 11:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So many opinions from people who want to make a person look or feel incompitent, it is nice to just have some facts. I just feel that regardless of her problem. She needs a home that will keep good care of her and WANTS her. I do encourage people to let their friends make mistakes and learn from them. Or recommend good vets, books, or sites like this. Sometimes people are so bossy and know-it-all, that it is just too much to listen to. Own horses for our own enjoyment, not for the opportunity to push our beliefs on our friends or compete with every one who says the word "horse".
 

Horse Pro
Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2001 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please bear in mind that navicular syndrome is, and has been for a long time one of the most over diagnosed and missdiagnosed lameness problems that affect horses. The fact is that by all traditional means of lameness diagnosis there is no sure way to definitively diagnose navicular syndrome. Even a horse with classic lolly pop lesions of the navicular bone on radiographs my very well be asymptomatic to the condition.

Having said that, if traditional therapy for the syndrome affects a positive change in the symptoms, it is then fairly safe to assume that the horse is actually suffering from this condition.

Here is link to a very well written article that pretty much sums it all up.

http://www.horseshoes.com/supplies/alphabet/equineeducationinstitute/learning/navicular/navicular.htm

I hope this helps all to understand exactly what he condition is and is not.

HP
 

nikki
Posted on Monday, May 14, 2001 - 04:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Horse Pro
Thanks for the recommendation of the article. It was very informative.
 

Jos
Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2001 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with HorsePro in his comments about navicular syndrome, but would like to add one caveat connected with breeding the mare that is definitely lame as a result of it.

Navicular syndrome itself has not been shown to be hereditary, BUT often the underlying cause of the problem is conformational - typically small feet and straight pasterns - and this very definitely does have a heritable aspect.

Breeding the truly "navicular mare" should therefore only be undertaken after careful analysis of the causes if one does not want to possibly perpetuate the situation into the next generation.
 

Paintluver (208.23.113.200)
Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2001 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This mare can barely move in the morning she has trouble with her feet constantly, so should these people still breed the mare?
 

Corry Christoff-Wilson, DVM (64.199.3.25)
Posted on Tuesday, June 05, 2001 - 10:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Absolutely not! Imagine the strain this poor mare will endure as a result of the increased weight gain of pregnancy! She cannot be comfortable with bearing just her own weight, much less the added weight of a foal. It would be a cruel undertaking unless the mare could be made comfortable (probably only by a neurectomy or "nerving" which is a salvage procedure.) If she cannot be made pain-free before breeding, it would not be fair to her to breed her. I did have a client with a SEVERELY foundered mare that was bred, foaled and was euthanized when the foal was weaned but it was heart wrenching to watch.

Dr. C
 

Kelly (63.172.47.217)
Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 12:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regardless if it is "navicular" or not, the point here is ,that this mare is in constant pain. Breeding her in this condition is a supremely selfish act.

There are plenty of younger, healthy mares out there that are available for breeding. If they can not afford to buy one, they can find one to lease.

Another consideration is the additional cost of care for the problems that may arise from attempting this pregnancy.
 

Painluver (204.189.92.17)
Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 02:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is what I thought, but I was plannijg to get the info from u first. I plan to show this to the people breeding her. Then, maybe they'll come to their senses! THANKS A LOT EVERYONE!!!
 

Kelly (63.172.47.218)
Posted on Wednesday, June 06, 2001 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Paintluver and LuvinHorses: I certainly hope that your information is correct. It is one thing to be ridable with navicular, and another to be dead bang lame.

We have a 20 year old Cutting Horse that does very well even though he is navicular. He does get "ouchy" just before he is due to be reshod. He teaches beginners and loves his life. It would be a shame if you interfered and dampened some ones enthusiasm, or denied a horse a loving home and a usefull existance. Think about it, and be cautious.
 

Nikki (216.26.58.85)
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have the navicular mare that was bred when I bought her. I just had the ultrasound done and she is indeed pregnant. She is doing really well and is soooo happy here. We feel like we scored big time by finding her.
I would like to show her in a halter class to keep her involved with other horses and fun. I haven't shown in years. Where do I begin, to find out requirements and rules? What can I gain by showing a registered Quarter Horse mare who is pregnant as far as points? How do the points work?
 

Kelly (63.172.47.189)
Posted on Tuesday, June 12, 2001 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nikki- The "American Quarter Horse Association" has a very informative website. If you intend on showing at an A.Q.H.A. approved show, you will need to know the rules. If you decide to show at a local club show, their rules may or may not differ.

I think that you may find it a problem showing a navicular mare at halter. It depends on how sore she is and how obvious the problem is. I wish you good luck with her and hope that you and she enjoy your time together.
 

HORSELOVER (152.163.201.193)
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I HAD A WARMBLOOD GELDING THAT HAD NAVICULAR DISEASE. HE WAS 9 YRS OLD AND HAD MODERATE TO SEVERE "LOLLIPOP LESIONS" IN HIS RIGTH FRONT ONLY. I PUT EGG BAR SHOES ON HIM AND PUT HIM ON MSM AND LUBRUN SUPPLEMENTS. HE GOT ADEQUAIN SHOTS EVERY 6 MONTHS AND IS CONTINUING AS A SUCCESSFUL 3'6 HUNTER/JUMPER AND HIGH LEVEL DRESSAGE HORSE. IF YOU HAVE A MARE OR STALLION THAT YOU WANT TO BREED BUT THEY HAVE SEVERE NACICULAR DISEASE, LOOK INTO DENERVING THEM, THIS WAY THEY WON'T FEEL ANY PAIN AND WILL BE COMFORTABLE, I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND THIS SURGURY FOR SHOW HORSES ALTHOUGH THEY DO THIS ALL THE TIME. MANY INTERNATIONAL SHOW JUMPERS HAVE NACICULAR AND ARE STILL SHOWING THE CIRCUIT BECAUSE THEY ARE DENERVED. I AM NOT A FAN OF IT. THIS SURGURY COULD COST AROUND $1500-$2500 DEPENDING ON THE VET AND HOSPITAL. BUT YOU COULD ALSO GO A DEFFERENT ROUTE..I HAD VERY GOOD LUCK WITH JUST USING ADEQUATE SUPPLEMENTS AND PROPER SHOEING TO RELIEVE THE PRESSURE AND PAIN FROM NAVICULAR. IT IS NOT AS BAD AS PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE. YES, YOUR RIGHT THAT IT IS NOT CURABLE AND HARDLY PREVENTABLE BUT THERE ARE SULUTIONS TO ALLOWING THE HORSE TO CONTINUE TO HAVE A NORMAL LIFE AND LIFELONG CAREER, WHETHER IT IS A TRAIL HORSE, REINER, OR INTERNATIONAL GRAND PRIX JUMPER, WE HAVE THE TECHONOLOGY TO HELP OUR HORSES LIVE A BETTER LIFE NO MATTER THE SITUATION.
 

Paintluver (208.23.115.148)
Posted on Friday, June 15, 2001 - 03:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the problem is these people with this 17 year old mare they dont have any money to spare!!
 

DANIELLE (152.163.201.182)
Posted on Sunday, June 24, 2001 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO MAKE THE MARE COMORTABLE AS WELL AS THE FUNDS THEY WILL NEED TO SUPPORT THE FOAL WHEN IT IS BORN THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BREEDING HER. EVEN IF THEY HAVE THE FUNDS TO BREED HER AND TAKE CARE OF THE FOAL, WHAT ABOUT THE COMFORT OF THE MARE, DOES SHE STILL NEED TO SUFFER WITH HER NAVICULAR??????
 

lrm_rodeo (205.163.42.22)
Posted on Friday, April 05, 2002 - 09:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 10 yr old mare who I roped and barrel raced with until she was diagnosed with degenerative arthritis. I bred her and she is in the last stages of pregnancy. This is her first foal. However, I recently found out that my mother has been giving her MSM for her arthritis. (i am away at college.) Can this affect the preg? Will it hurt the foal? Cause any defects? Any info would be greatly appreciated. I am nervous about any complications.
 

Tenders Mom (198.81.17.184)
Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 02:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As an owner of 3 man-made lame mares (stupid owners), I donít see a problem with breeding a lame horse. Yes there are days that they are sore and days it isnít so bad. One thing that I have done is made sure the mare is comfortable. My lame mares love their babies, which I might say are very NICE. I canít ride the mares but that doesnít mean they are worthless. They just take a bit more care and consideration in their care.



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