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2B biopsy following 2 abortions

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Breeding Problem Mares - Volume 1 » 2B biopsy following 2 abortions « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Lisa Bates
Posted on Wednesday, March 07, 2001 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, I spoke of this 25 year old mare under hormone manipulation, but have since got test results. In 1999, she foaled her (approx) 16th foal, covered back easily and aborted at just under 3 months (cultured bacterial, treated). Left open for winter and covered in 2000, Caslicked, carried to 8 months. All tissue and swabs came back negative, no gross pathology clues. Now the biopsy (taken 1 month post abortion) shows Category 2B, moderate chronic active endometritis. Her cervix was still slack at time of biopsy. What treatments are recommended to bring this mare back to health (see seems fine), and what if any chances are there to get a live foal? I understand that the category scale is 1, 2a, 2b, 3 and that 2b indicates 10% - 50% chance of pregnancy. I still don't have an answer as to why the abortion??
 

Ali Younes ABBASSY
Posted on Friday, March 09, 2001 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Lisa,
Your mare is old (I'm afraid to tell you "very old", excuse me but I have to say it) and multiparous (I congratulate her for her 16th foal). So, I'm not surprised to read that the biopsy shows a IIB category. You must know that this category shows some signs of endometritis among which there is moderate fibrosis that can affect a great part of the endometrium. Indeed, old multiparous mares develop successive endometritis due to repeated gynaecological manipulations, particularly artificial inseminations, or to natural breeding. The consequence of these inflammations is the appearance of a periglandular
fibrosis which is deleterious for any embryo or fetus. That could be one of the several reasons of the abortions, so it could be the reason in your mare's case since it's a leading cause of abortions in mares.
Your mare can be brought back to health by removing the fibrotic tissue (technique to discuss with your veterinarian) but the success rate seems to be poor. To avoid contamination of the uterus, or, rather, to reduce this contamination during breeding, a "Least Contamination Technique" exists and your veterinarian can give you informations about it.
To the question about the chances to get a live foal with a IIB category biopsy, you answered yourself.
I hope these informations help you! Reply to me.
And good luck with your mare: I wish she could give you more live foals than she's already done.
 

Ali Younes ABBASSY
Posted on Saturday, March 10, 2001 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, it's me again
I forgot to inform you yesterday about one of my experiences in the field of reproduction problems:
last year, I had the opportunity to work in a big stud-farm where an Arabian mare showed embryonic losses during 2 years. Successive biopsies were all of IIB category (large areas of fibrosis)and cultures were positive for different kind of pathogens (yeasts, bacteria). She was treated each time with the appropriate antimicrobial substance, but nothing has been done to treat the fibrosis. And during the season I worked there, she maintained a fetus, and the year after she gave us a lovely foal, in a very good health.
I just tell you this to make you aware of the fact that nothing is absolute in medicine, so stay always optimistic and don't give up.
Bye Bye.
 

Lisa Bates
Posted on Monday, March 12, 2001 - 02:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your input Ali. The fibrosis on the biopsy was minimal. My veternarian has suggested hot douches with Gentamycin three times during heat, then twice more in the next heat to help clear the deep infections. If we decide to go ahead and breed her again, we will flush once more just before breeding on the third heat, cover her only once with the stallion (probably using Ovuplant) and douche again post breeding. She would then be Caslicked and cross our fingers. Do you see any fault with this suggestion, or offer any caveats?? Thanks in advance.
 

Ali Younes ABBASSY
Posted on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello. I'm very relieved to know that the fibrosis
was not as important as I thought it was. I want to tell you that the therapeutic protocole chosen
by your veterinarian is one of the most used by the practicing vets in equine reproduction. The douches are practiced during heat because the cervix is opened at this time what allows an easy introduction of a catheter through the cervical lumen to the uterus. An other reason why it's practiced at this time is because the uterine defense mechanisms are more efficient in estrus, so the quality of the antimicrobial treatment is enhanced a lot. The flushing before and after breeding is to include in the "Least Contamination Technique" I mentioned last time.The protocole you mentioned above can be efficient. Does your vet think of using oxytocin in this protocole, just to enhance the uterine clearance? It's very efficient, especially in older mares which has got a poor uterine clearance
(this is proved by uterine scintigraphy). Tell your vet not to forget to perform, during the third heat, a new uterine culture to see if it's positive or not, and especially a uterine cytology which shows the presence of micro-organisms and inflammation at a time using special staining methods. A positive culture would allow to perform an antibiotic test to know which antibiotic is the best in treating the infection.
You must also know that the uterus of older mares (like your mare is) is susceptible to infection since its defense mechanisms are not as efficient as younger mare's. So I suggest you to practice the uterine flushing before and after every breeding.
Excuse me for this long and maybe boring message, but I can't help analysing things and trying to find a solution to problems.
I will cross my fingers, be sure of that.
Bye Bye.
 

Louise Daugherty (64.12.102.39)
Posted on Monday, June 18, 2001 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would like to know if there is information concerning the likelyhood of a mare aborting or absorbing a foal during early gestation when a new stallion is introduced in an adjoining field. My mare was in her third month when the stallion was introduced to the herd. She came back into heat within two weeks. When vet checked she was full of fluid and did have a dead fetus. I thought their might be some connection.
 

Noble Knight (206.157.249.119)
Posted on Sunday, August 05, 2001 - 04:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Louise, I just came across your question and thought I would share a similar thing that happened to me. We have a 9 year old chestnut mare, very healthy and an easy breeder live and AI. She was 3 months. I moved our best stallion to our farm where she was. He's tall, dark (black), and very handsome. Of all the horses, these two were interested only in each other. Within 3 weeks she was winking and he was visibly excited. She had aborted. Everything analyzed, no cause. Your same question came to mind and I thought no way, but they sure are in love, never seen nothin like it.

The next year we bred them using live cover with teasing. This stallion has been hand bred for 13 years with a perfect one time record (except for one 23 year old covered for 2 natural cycles). Well this chestnut mare comes into false heat, while standing and allowing him to mount, every 8 to 10 days for 5 weeks and then she will ovulate and carry full term. I just let them run together in their own pasture now and try not to book any mares when I know they will be doing their thing.

In my opinion and as strange as it sounds, YES I believe it is possible.
 

Kelly (63.172.47.226)
Posted on Monday, August 06, 2001 - 02:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As romantic as it seems, there is an explanation for this occurance. Abortion in early preganacy, within the first 90 days, can happen for many reasons. I will suggest that you have a look at some of the articles and links at the main board of this site.

Contrary to Mr. Knights experience, when breeding many mares in a breeding season, a perfect one cover record is more luck than anything else. There are many variables and factors at work here. No matter what the semen counts are, if the mare is not in a condition to concieve, the semen is a moot point.

I have had a pregnant mare allow a stallion to mount and penetrate. When this happens, the cervical seal is broken and the uterus is no longer a sterile and suitable invironment for a pregnancy to continue.

It is not strange at all that this could happen to your mare. It is entirely possible that the stallion found a way to breed her. I would consider a caslicks to ensure that she can not contaminate herself the next time around. I would also suggest a culture to rule out infection.
 

Noble Knight (206.157.249.116)
Posted on Tuesday, August 07, 2001 - 06:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I must apologize for a little light hearted response to an unfortunate experience. Also for the fact that I may have been narrative and misunderstood. Maybe I should not have assumed that your vet had competently explained the causes and investigated the loss of this foal with no conclusion and this was the reason for your question.

As before, assuming that the mare was not bred while pregnant, all medical/known causes have been negative and the cause of aborting is not contributed to genetic incompatibility or some other physical cause, Yes I do believe it is possible. 1 in a million yes, but not impossible. I find no studies done on the subject. I do however agree with Kelly that this is probably not the case with your mare.

Accidents happen but any breeding farm that has a stallion breeding mares without a handlers permission should reconsider having a stallion. I can just see one of my clients foals registry denied because the DNA was not from the stallion paid for. It could also be considered incompetent to allow a stallion to breed/try to breed an already pregnant mare thus compromising the pregnancy and the valuable stallion from debilitating blows from an unreceptive mare. After my mare came back in after the first breeding, I extensively ultrasounded her and she did not ovulate until the 5th week of this very strange cycle. I just decided to pasture breed since they are very well mannered and respectful. When she conceives she respectfully will not allow him to advance, he knows and will not push the issue. She is the only mare ever pasture bred by this stallion and she is now back to a more normal cycle.

If one is fortunate enough to have a stallion that has an exceptional ability to detect ovulation, the handler is able to "read" this from the stallion, and the mares are healthy well bred animals, high conception rates are the result and it is not considered lucky. Super Potent sperm is not an issue. 100% conception rates are documented from marginally fertile stallions breeding 10 or more mares a season.
 

sbf (152.163.205.73)
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i have a 17 year old mare and was checked having a 2a with minamal fibrous they can not undserstand why this mare has not concieved lately. last year she was cultured a nd we cleaned her than she did catch but lost it right after the vet palpated her on day 35. he said everything was ok than on day 37 she came into heat. i tried again this year but no luck. uterios is clean and i am ai ing her also with oxytocin for 5 days after breeding once. no luck. any suggestions. i am trying not to spend a lot of money at this time i have spent a lot already on her. my stallion has foundered a nd i need a colt by them to pass him on. please help!!
 

Kelly (63.172.47.227)
Posted on Wednesday, August 08, 2001 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately, it may cost you some money to insure that the best conditions are available for conception.

The good news is, she did concieve once already. It sounds as if she may need Regumate to help her maintain a prenancy. It is not unusual for a mare of her age to have these problems.

At this stage in the game, I would not leave anything to chance. Get together with your vet and discuss the proceedures that would cover all the bases. Good luck.
 

Olivia McDonough (208.14.26.143)
Posted on Friday, March 29, 2002 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We are exspecting a new colt, but we are not sure when she is due. She was bread May 21, 2001 and again on the 23rd. As of today March 29, 2002 she seems ready to foal. Her milk bag is forming and above her tail is getting soft. Is she to early to foal? This is our first exsperience with a brood mare and this is her first pregnancy. She is 6 years old. Could you please give us some insight on this question. Thank you.
 

KS (66.186.168.93)
Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2002 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Are you all familiar with flushing?? My mare needs that before we breed because of a bacteria. She absorbed 2 times a few years ago and I am now trying again. HOw many times does a mare need to be flushed?



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