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How young can you safely cut a colt

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » How young can you safely cut a colt « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Maura Jordan
Neonate
Username: Mjordan

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 06:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all,
I have a 4 mo. old colt who thinks he's a breeding stallion. He has been this way since he was a week old. Urinates on others manure, is always up someone's butt, mounts with a dropped penis other foals. He's something. Both testicles are dropped and have always been. My vet is unsure of cutting him this early. I really need to get him cut or he'll have to be seperated from the other kids. Any feelings on this ??
Maura
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 665
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 08:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm, my vets always like to wait until 6 months and then we do it according to weather conditions on every male animal we casterate. We look for a cool spell if it must be done in the summer, otherwise all the different vets we use really prefer to wait until fall time when temps are on the cooler side and flys are less of a problem. Heat, flys and casteration are not a good mixture. Some of what you are seeing, I do beleive is just for play and feeling his ground. He is testing his limits and his herd that he is in.

Kim
 

Maura Jordan
Neonate
Username: Mjordan

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 09:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yeah, thats what my vet thinks too. I have done them earlier. But not in Pa where I live now. I know about the weather concerns. And I've been around alot of foals and colts and NO this isn't play he's relentless and knows excatly what his parts are for.Yes he may be seeing where his limits are but he's been doing this since birth. NOT normal foal behavior. He's way too advanced for his age.
Heres something I observed, not sure what to make of it if anything. I have colts out of this mare and they were all normal colts who didn't show any sexual intrest until they were yearlings or older. With this colt the mare needed regumate for the first time. She herself started having stallion like behavior while she was on Regumate carring this colt. I've heard that mare sometimes act that way on Regumate, first time I ever saw it. Could her reaction to Regumate have an effect on the testerone level of this foal ???? Prob. a question for Jos.Just food for thought
Maura
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 962
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, August 06, 2006 - 10:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's unlikely that the mare behaviour was related to Regumate, which is in fact a female-like hormone, not a male one. All foals in-utero secrete testosterone - just different levels from foal to foal - and for whatever reason, this one apparently secreted enough to get the mare behaving somewhat stallion-like during pregnancy. Incidentally, both colt and filly fetuses secrete testosterone.

As far as castration is concerned - if the weather, management and fly conditions permit, and the testicles are both present and easily accessible.... CUT :-) (or should that be :-( ???)
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 823
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 08:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a colt that will be 4 months on the 16th, he too is always under someones tail lip raising, and urinating or pooping on a mares pile and mounting anywone who will tolerate it... sometimes he is dropped and erect, other times soft, and sometimes not at all...I too wonder how early i should cut him...how early can he impregnate someone, because he is pastured with his mom and 2 half sisters and i guess ideally i wouldnt want any of them bred by him ( i have been told half sisters is ok,,, but not sure about that !!!.) I would like to wait as i have been told the longer you wait the more bulk and muscle they will produce (JOS or anyone IS THIS TRUE?)
any input is appreciated!!!
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 666
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kris, from what our vets have told us, the earlier you casterate the more heigth you will get. Even as much as two inches if done at six months. I guess it depends where you want that extra energy to focus on. Development of something your going to cut off or something that will stay for a lifetime !



Hmm, there are different thoughts on the breeding question you have. I have also been told that half siblings are ok but not a good idea, that full siblings are a no no, and others feel a better choice would be father/daughter or mother/son combo. We were just having this discussion in our goat club

Kim
 

E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie

Post Number: 545
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim- that's an interesting tidbit of information, I'd never heard that castrating early will give more height. In fact, I have a yearling stud colt that is VERY small and immature, I've held of getting him cut because I didn't want to set him back any. In fact, I've about decided to wait till spring if I can find a place to keep him where he's not in danger of breeding anyone.
JOS- can you validate the height theory?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 963
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's been no peer-reviewed research into the height theory that I'm aware of, but I am aware of breeders that have regularly castrated at 2 and 3 days of age and have ended up with taller horses than full brothers that were castrated later, so I am inclined to think that it is true.

The theory about later castration resulting in greater "bulk" OTOH really doesn't hold true, as that bulk is testosterone-dependent, so upon castration the "bulk" will recede - think of a mare with a GCT for example, and how she develops "stallion-like" conformation that dissappears when the tumour is removed.
 

Orsbreederz
Neonate
Username: Orsbreederz

Post Number: 8
Registered: 07-2006
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I had read the theory on geldings growing taller was due to the effect of testosterone on closing the growth plates. So that as a colt matured, his rising levels of testosterone would cause the growth plates to close sooner than had there not been the increased testosterone. It seems that would hold true moreso for slower-maturing breeds.
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 826
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow, alot to think about...I will probably wait until late late fall or early spring for cool weather and no bugs.
I guess i would like him taller...maybe early would be a good thing...and if it makes no diff on build...why not...except i already have people who want ot breed to him even though he is a half breed! UGH...DECISIONS DECISIONS!!!
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 667
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, August 07, 2006 - 05:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is funny when thinking about my own experiences. We have bred the same mare to the same stallion a number of times. The offspring of this combo is the fillys have always exceeded the growth of the colts(which normally have been left uncasterated until a later age). I really mean exceeded too. The fillys have matured out at close to 16 hands and the colts only close to 15 hands. This is a qh/tb cross.
 

E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie

Post Number: 548
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2006 - 11:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks to all for the advice, I'm afraid Chaos is doomed, as soon as cool weather arrives, his parts will be on the "must be removed" list.
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 831
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I AM WITH YOU EV...JERICHOS PARTS ARE ON THE MUST REMOVE LIST AS WELL!!! HE IS MUCH TOO MANLY TO KEP INTACT IN A PASTURE WITH HIS MOM AND SISTERS!!!! HE HAS NOW BROUGHT A 16.2 HAND QH INTO HEAT...AND IS DROPPED, ERECT AND MOUNTING AND TRYING HIS HARDEST TO DO THE JOB!!! (NEEDLESS TO SAY HE IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING TALL ENOUGH THANK GOODNESS)
SO YEAH, COOL WEATHER AND LESS BUGS=CUT!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 832
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I AM WITH YOU EV...JERICHOS PARTS ARE ON THE MUST REMOVE LIST AS WELL!!! HE IS MUCH TOO MANLY TO KEEP INTACT IN A PASTURE WITH HIS MOM AND SISTERS!!!! HE HAS NOW BROUGHT A 16.2 HAND QH INTO HEAT...(A FRIENDS HORSE WHO IS STAYING HERE FOR A FEW MONTHS) HE IS DROPPED, ERECT AND MOUNTING AND TRYING HIS HARDEST TO DO THE JOB!!! (NEEDLESS TO SAY HE IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING TALL ENOUGH THANK GOODNESS)
SO YEAH, COOL WEATHER AND LESS BUGS=CUT!!!!!!!!!!!
 

E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie

Post Number: 550
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chaos isn't even interested in the gals except at feed time when they run him out of the trough, and then his interest is getting OUT of the way. He's a wuss. Still, he's tiny, so if cutting him will make him a bit taller, I'll go ahead and do it rather than wait, as he is now, I'll have trouble with my feet dragging the ground when I break him out this winter!! ( and I'm only 5'6 ) Boy, if he stays small though he might be worth a bundle, I think he'll be gray eventually.. and a registered Quarter Pony that's dapple gray might fetch a nice sum...
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 669
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ya Eve, if you have a pony with a qh attitude that would make a great sale ! Good luck
Kim
 

Peggie M
Yearling
Username: Peggie_m

Post Number: 59
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 02:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry I haven't been on board for a while. As you may recall, Boston has been our aggressive, nipping, precosiously "frisky" 4.5 month old colt and we have been trying to work with him as much as possible.... Boy I wish there were more hours in the day. Kris, our guy is doing the exact same things and has been since he learned to stand on two back legs. He is only turned out with mom, (small herd of 3 at our place). Our vet suggested castration at any time so probably 5 to 5.5 months. He is 429 lbs and 13.3 (almost 14 h) and FRISKY to say the least. It seems that almost anything excites him - wind, food, water, turn-out, etc., etc. Our vet stated there isn't any benefit "bulk-wise" to keeping him as a stud. Breed has the biggest role in size.... The benefits seem to outweigh the negatives in leaving him "whole", i.e. shorter healing time, smaller incision. We are VERY hopeful that most of the aggression will also disappear... I've never had a colt before so wondering if anyone knows if the behaviours will improve???? KEEPING THOSE FINGERS CROSSED!
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 836
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 09, 2006 - 03:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

YEAH ID LIKE TO KNOW AS WELL, THIS IS MY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH A COLT, I HAVE ONLY DEALT WITH FILLIES, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ONE COLT, AND HE WAS SO DOCILE AND EASY WE DIDNT KNOW HE WA EVEN INTERESTED IN GIRLS TILL ONE DAY WE LOOKED OUT AND HE WAS BREEDING MY MARE(YEP I HAVE AN 11YR OLD MARE FROM THAT BREEDING:-) ) jERICHO IS TOTALLY OPPOSITE!!! HE IS INTERSTED AND HAS BEEN SINCE ABOUT 5 WEEKS!!!
HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY MOUHY, LIKES TO BITE AND NIP,,,ID LIKE THAT FIXED! BUT HE IS PRETTY RESPECTFUL OF PEOPLE EXCEPT FOR THE BITING, I GUESS THAT IS GOOD.
ILL BE DISCUSSING IT THIS WEEK WITH THE VET.
 

E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie

Post Number: 553
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 10, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kris- Chaos is like your first colt was, very quiet, doesn't pay any attention to the fillies, etc, that's why I hated to get him gelded BUT, he's not really stud material and if it helps him grow a little more height wise, we'll get it done about October, that might make him easier to deal with when it's time to start putting the saddle on too. Maybe the presence of the other studs on the place has kept the younger boys from being too assertive?? ( survival, ya know? )
 

Dottie Rutledge
Nursing Foal
Username: Drutledge

Post Number: 14
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My Clydesdale stud colt just turned 1 in May. He's very laid back and calm and is in the pasture with 3 mares. One is due to foal any time now, one is a 10 yo that has never shown me any signs of heat, and the other we just aquired last weekend. Clyde sniffs around, and enjoys his manhood by himself, but has never attempted to experiment with the ladies. This new mare's old owner says she comes in very quickly, but, of course they need a male that will give them a little "foreplay". Is my colt just a big Oaf? Or am I rushing him? As you can see in the pictures, he's pretty laid back. He was helping with fence building. Saws and drills didn't even phase him. What a wild stallion!

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h127/drutledge5150/clyde7.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h127/drutledge5150/clydehelpingout.jpg
http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h127/drutledge5150/clydehelpingout2.jpg
 

E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie

Post Number: 555
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, August 11, 2006 - 01:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dottie- I had to laugh at those photos, what a mild mannered fellow you have there! ( totally relaxed ) Our colts that are out with fillies haven't made any moves yet either, just be aware that when they decide to, their disposition can change and what comes naturally can take over. With one the size of yours, I'd want to be very careful when it comes time to breed.
 

Dottie Rutledge
Nursing Foal
Username: Drutledge

Post Number: 16
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, August 14, 2006 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Clyde is one of a kind. When he got his feet clipped for the first time ever we expected a fight. He surprized all of us though. He was sunbathing just like in the picture and wouldn't get up for the farrier. So, the farrier just sat down on top of him and clipped him there. It was more like he was getting a pedicure at a day spa. You're right though. If Clyde doesn't want to do something...he will make sure he gets his way.
 

Dorthy Brown
Weanling
Username: Dodib

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this is an old post but my vet said if both testicles have dropped you can cut them. OUr foal was gelded at just over 4 months and we had no issues at all.
Also want to add I just bought a Percheron/Morgan mare that is over 16 hands tall that I found out is bred (about 6 months or more along) and is pregnant by a 2 year old(not quite) Paint stud(which means he was 18 months or under when he did the deed. He is also only about 13 hands right now.......... so how he did the deed I do not know but nature does take it course. So if you do not want surprise foals make sure you get them cut or seperate
 

Magic1
Nursing Foal
Username: Magic1

Post Number: 16
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2007 - 12:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I didn't want to start a new thread, but I have a question for some one with expertise. I recently received an email stating that, "It might be very uncommon but there have been cases where colts slightly over six months old have been shown to be fertile". Is this a true statement and is there any proof of this occuring? I just find it hard to believe that a foal can impregnate his dam at such a young age.



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