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Stallion Ejaculating

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Stallion Ejaculating « Previous Next »


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Osprey
Neonate
Username: Osprey

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 03:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have a 4 year old warmblood stallion that is due to be very busy this year. We are doing natural covering with him.

Last year we covered 3 mares with him and 2 out of 3 held.

My question is that we are struggling to know if he is ejaculating just now.

He has high libido and is mounting the mares without any problem. He then does several thrusts and looks like he is done. However..... when we take him off the mare and walk him round he then has an erect penis again. So then we are not sure if he has finished and give him another shot.......again he mounts the mare without any problem and starts thrusting again and then stops after about 2-3 mins or so, looking like he is finished.

Last night we had one mare that he mounted 3 times!! When he comes off the mare the end of his penis is not mushroomed. I say the last bit because the other stallion we had when he had finished and came off the mare his penis was mushroomed.

We do not have any AV's to see if he is ejaculating as we are not yet set up for AI.

This is the first mare of the year just now, so we are not sure if it is because he is getting over-excited??

Any ideas??
 

Terry O.
Yearling
Username: Ksfarmer

Post Number: 61
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does he move his tail up and down while he is mounted. That will help tell you if he has ejaculated.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10654
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's hard to say. The "flowering" or "belling" of the glans (end) of the penis usually occurs and is indicative of being close to or having ejaculated. An absence of that flowering would have me concerned that he is not ejaculating.

"Flagging" of the tail is only moderately useful as an indicator, as some stallions do not flag while ejaculating. A better method for determination is to put one's hand on the underside of the base of the penis and if he is ejaculating you will be able to feel the ejaculatory spurts - that however may be tricky to do in a live cover situation.

If it were me, I would try and feel the pulses if it is safe to do so, and if not I would track down an AV and evaluate that way.
 

Sachiko
Neonate
Username: T_ontheleftcheek

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 13, 2006 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You may also try makeing him wait a little longer before he mounts the mares. Let he get REALLY ready. Just a thought. :-). We had an Arab stud that would do this same thing but only with bay mares lol. He didnot like the Bay ladys for some reason. We had to bring in an old Piont mare and stand her close by to get him going any time we had a Bay.
Boy's can be odd ;)
 

sharon cox
Neonate
Username: Mispie

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 07:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SPEAKING OF BOYS CAN BE ODD, I HAVE A BLACK AND WHITE STUD OUT OF KIDCLUE AND I DONT KNOW IF HE IS NOT GETTING ENOUGH GIRLS OR WHAT BUT HE IS MUTLATING HIMSELF. BITING AT HIS SIDES AND TEARING SKIN. ANY IDEAS ON THIS, I REALLY HATE TO CUT HIM HIS FIRST BABY IS A BALFACE R/W PAIN WITH BLACK MAIN AND TAIL. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE 2 & 3 OF HIS. OR COULD IT BE HE'S NOT GETTING WORKED ENOUGH (AS IN RIDDEN) PLEASE HELP I DONT WANT TO CUT HIM.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 598
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would certianly try more ground work at least to try to ease his frustrations. Exercising will help with some of this. If he has enough work then pent up energy will not be taken out on himself. Even if it just on a lunge line.

Make sure you rule out any pain of any type too.

good luck
Kim
 

Osprey
Neonate
Username: Osprey

Post Number: 3
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi there,

Thanks for all your help.

Jos.......when you say the base of the penis, is this right at the bottom beside the testes? I tried tonight but not sure if I was doing it correctly.

For the time being we dont have the use of an AV or Dummy mare.

He is still taking 3-4 shots before properly ejaculating. Saying that he is a 4 year old and for the last week has had to cover two mares each day.

If he is pulsating during the other three mounts how do I know that he is ejaculating all the proper semen (if you know what I mean)?

Also another question......how long will semen live inside a mare. I have heard this can be anything between 24-36 hours??
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10666
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is the underside of the penis outside of the mare or the AV, towards the testes. There is a groove that runs under the penis, and through which the urethra runs, and you can feel the pulsations of the passage of the fluid at the time of ejaculation.

What do you mean by "He is still taking 3-4 shots before properly ejaculating."? Do you mean mounts? If so, that is perfectly normal. In the wild, stallions will typically mount the mare without before erection obtained - they are just making absolutely sure they are not putting the delicate equipment into a direct line of fire! :-) If the stallion is actually achieving intromission (penetration) and dismounting multiple times before ejaculation, then that is not normal.

Without an AV and evaluation of the fractions of the ejaculate, you cannot determine if he is truly ejaculating. The pulsing could occur if the stallion has a blockage of the ampullae or deferent duct, and while he is ejaculating secondary sex gland secretions (seminal plasma and gel) he may not be ejaculating sperm-rich fraction.

Sperm already in the mare's reproductive tract have been known to be viable up to 6 days in some cases, but 36-48 hours is generally considered the average.
 

Osprey
Neonate
Username: Osprey

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jos,

Thanks so much for your help, what would we do without you....

Ok will try the base of the penis tomorrow.

"He is still taking 3-4 shots before properly ejaculating" - What I mean by this is that he has an erection and is penetrating the mare, then it is almost like he is just about finished when he withdraws (still erect!). He then stops for about a minute before getting "excited" again and then goes for another shot.

Also noted is that he is not the best at mounting and I think he has a thing about balance while on the mare. Also he came just back from his competition yard and only had about 2-3 days at home before all the mares arrived, and so is maybe slightly leaner than we would have perhaps had ourselves (had he been at home).

When he goes on the 3rd or 4th attempt then he is ejaculating (I am 99% sure) because he has flowered and the mare then tries to squirt out the ejaculate. He is also rather tired at this point.....

He has never had a "bad mare" so there is no reasons for him to be scared. I have also examined his penis etc and all looks well. He is not bothered about jumping, so I can see no pain issues in the back or legs etc.....

As you say the AV is the answer but at the moment we dont have that available to us..
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10669
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While he may not be ejaculating, still having an erection at dismount is not "proof positive" that he has not ejaculated...

Security of position might be a factor, but just to rule out the possibility you might want to talk to your vet. about giving him a suitable dose of 'bute or Banamine about an hour prior to collection. If there is a pain (soreness) issue anywhere, that could make all the difference - and it does sound more like that (soreness)...
 

Lindros
Nursing Foal
Username: Lindros

Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What about taking a post breeding sample every time he covers a mare and looking at it under the microscope? Lots of farms around here do it that way.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10670
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 18, 2006 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only thing a dismount sample proves is that if there are sperm present, he ejaculated. It does not show:
  • That he did not ejaculate if there are no sperm present;
  • The concentration of sperm in the ejaculate;
  • The number of sperm in the ejaculate.
So - it really is very limited in value, and often leads to unnecessary panic! :-)

If you want to have a look - no harm, but don't become alarmed if there are no sperm - it doesn't mean he hasn't ejaculated...
 

nomis
Neonate
Username: Osprey

Post Number: 5
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 05:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Folks,

Well I thought we had cracked it this morning. We changed round the covering area a bit to let him go downhill. He jumped on, did the business and off again in 5 mins......no probs or hesitations.

Tonight.......well after the 3rd shot we called it a day, have no idea if he did anything or not but we did not want to subject the second mare to too much.

So we are going to try the bute to rule out pain. Wondered about taking some bloods in case he has picked up anything?

Just getting a wee bit frustrating......
 

Hope Parr
Weanling
Username: Hope26us

Post Number: 21
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 19, 2006 - 08:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

have you considered having a vet collect your guy and test his semen, make sure he is giving what he is suppose to be giving and how much he is giving?

Hope
www.avalanchefriesians.com
 

Saucy
Nursing Foal
Username: Saucy

Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, June 14, 2006 - 08:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Goodness - this has made me really how easy my colt is!! He's only 2 and we covered 2 of my mares with him to test breed. He takes a minute or 2 to get 'ready', but then he's on and off in under 10 seconds - job done! He got both mares in foal first cycle. Phew! I hope your boy starts to get the hang of it a bit soon, otherwise your covering season is going to feel like a long one! Good luck!
 

Osprey
Neonate
Username: Osprey

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 18, 2006 - 04:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Everyone,

Thought I would give you an update.

Our stallion is getting mares in foal. So far we have had 10 confirmed pregnancies.

He still messes about with some mares, but then others he just jumps right on and does the business within a couple of minutes.

So thankfully we are getting mares in foal despite his nonsense.

We are hoping to put him away to an insemination centre at the end of the stud season to have his semen sampled etc, and hopefully some for freezing if we are lucky. So it will be interesting to see just what his ejaculate is like.

Thanks to all who contributed to this, it was all much appreciated.
 

Rich Krzyzanowski
Neonate
Username: Chykynlyps

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just out of curiosity, what would you say would be the average volume of ejaculate that a stallion secretes during one breeding seesion?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1062
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, November 14, 2006 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Volume is not the number one wants to investigate. Total sperm in the ejaculate is the number that needs to be determined, as that will have a direct impact on the number of mares/insemination doses that can be obtained from a single ejaculate. High volume with low sperm concentration can result in lower insemination dose numbers than low volume with high concentration!
 

Rich Krzyzanowski
Neonate
Username: Chykynlyps

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 01:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand that volume isnt really all that important but I have a bet going with a friend at work and was just looking for an average number of fkuid ounces, cups, gallons....whatever is the most convienient measurement, really.
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 216
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 10:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Rich I quess it would depend if the stallion covered one mare or 60. Also some stallions have small volumn ejaculates and some have very large volumn.
I just don't see how to come up with an average.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1070
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As noted, there is no "average". There is individual stallion variability, and even variability within the stallion. The more a stallion is teased for example, the greater the resulting volume of ejaculate - but the sperm concentration will be lower (with total numbers remaining about the same).

As a range of possible averages, I would say anywhere between 10 and 70 ml would be a reasonable range. There will however be figures outside that range.



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