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Is he worth the price?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Is he worth the price? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Mary Greer
Breeding Stock
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 205
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 03:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I found this stallion whom is AQHA and APHA double registered. He sounds nice and calm. He is about 16hh and temperment from 1-10 (1=calm 10=hot) he is listed as a 2. The ad says he is easy on the girls and is very calm when breeding.I have asked the owner for more information and updated photos. The photos they sent are from april and he is a little under weight which I am somewhat worried about unless he was bred alot then it would be expected for a horse that wasnt getting his feed up'd during breeding season as it should be. He is priced at $500 please give me your opinion on him. Oh his date of birth is April 2004 so he is a 5 year old.

Pedigree- http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/gray+peppy+olena

Photos-
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/cowgirlup07/Goose_Right_4_8_09.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f208/cowgirlup07/Goose_Left2_4_8_09.jpg

(Message edited by cowgirlup07 on May 29, 2009)
 

Ann
Yearling
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 70
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 08:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess that my questions have less to do with how he breeds and his registration and more about what he has accomplished himself. Has he been shown or does he do any work on a farm or ranch?

What about him do you like? What will the cross between your mare and this particular stallion bring? In other words, does he have strengths that you mare lacks that he could give to a foal? (The mare is about 70% but the approx 30% of his contribution cannot be overlooked.)

Do you like his pedigree? Why or why not? Will it mesh with your mare's pedicgree well?

Just my thoughts...good luck on whatever you decide.

(Oh, and for what it is worth, we have friends with a large breeding operation and they have about 6 stallions that are heavily used...not an underweight one in the bunch.)

Ann
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1485
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like Ann, I would need alot more information and really good conformation judging photos to render and opinion. In general, and you may not want my opinion after this, I think there are many very good basic $500 5 yr old riding horses - and a lot of really bad $500 yr old riding horses. I have never come across a really good 5 yr old $500 stallion. If he has what it takes to be "reproduction" quality, he wouldn't be $500. Normal stud fees around here are at least $250 (and that would be an in-the-family deal).Around here, a good local horse would be $300 to $500 live cover at minimum. That is where the conformationally correct, but unproven studs start their fees - it goes way up from there. We have a lot of local studs that people keep because they thought their colt was "pretty" and they will let anyone breed with them for $100. I really don't count them as breeders, more as owner's in need of serious enlightenment. The situation sounds likes a stud that probably needs to be gelded because he isn't getting the job done or someone has found a new "pretty" stallion to replace him.

If I am off track with my generalization, you would have to look at his foal crop and mare selection to see what he has produced. Then compare his results to what you are seeking to produce.

I hope this helps!
 

Rusti
Breeding Stock
Username: Rusti

Post Number: 407
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I've never had a stallion or considered buying one before so my opinion might not matter but...for $500 I would be very leery of the deal. Something could be really wrong with him (that might involve him not keeping weight on) that they are not telling you. I've learned from my experiences that when it comes to buying horses trust no one.
 

Robin
Breeding Stock
Username: 1horselady

Post Number: 122
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This guy is absolutely adorable, if you want to buy him you should, $500 is a great price1! Pop him in your trailer and head home with him, Oh and on your way home GELD HIM! He is cute, looks to have a sweet eye and if he is as calm as they say he is, probably a nice guy. However is he breeding quality? I am sorry but I am just not seeing it. Unless he is standing on a a hill he looks extremely down hill, very straight from the stilfe to the hock and the photo makes him look a bit over in the knee. He has no top line to speak of which makes me assume that they have done little to no training. Another clue, they did not post a show photo or even took him to a area that was not surrounded by old dry manure. A producing 5 year old stallion would usually be on the show circut promoting himself or competing in some way...i will say usually.
As we know the world is full of unwanted horses and unfortunately the majority of them are quarter horses, paints and mix breeds. Not to be offending to the owners of those horse breeds, but check your local auction and you will see that is the average. More and more of these horses are going to slaughter. These horses were not all mistakes, someone put effort in breeding them. Heck some of them might be on foal watch message boards like this so excited to see their new bundle of joy. Then the horse is for whatever reason not up to par, or life changes force a quick sale and they are ploped on to a slaughter truck. I know that is the extream and it doesn't quite relate to your situation. But if you are considering starting a breeding program I beg of you, do the horse industry a favor and breed for quality (brains, athletic ability, confirmation and to overall better the breed)
I know that was a little bit of a soap box moment and I don't mean offense by anything, its just my opinion that I felt I wanted to share.
 

Ann
Yearling
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 71
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am just going to weigh in on the cost of stud fees...we have a mare in foal for 2010 to the current word champion. His stud fee? $500. I think that it is really hard to judge a horse based upon a stud fee because so many things play in to it....the area of the country, the breed of horse and the economy (supply and demand). I read an interesting aticle recently that said that to help stimulate breeding, stallion owners were offering discounts on breeding mares.

At any rate, stud fees vary wildly so I would not necessarily judge the merit of a stallion based upon his fee.

Kathee is absolutley correct in her assesssment of stud fees and raises some great thinking points as well!
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 2472
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 03:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well..this horse may be worth $500 but not as a stud. I am going to wade in too since you did ask for opinions. I think that you would do better using your $500 for a quality stud fee for your mare and putting your time into your new yearling. Just because a horse has his family jewels does not mean he should be bred. The horses are piling up around the country that were bred for no particular reason. If you are in the mindset to think you are going to rescue this fellow I think that is comendable and like above posters please geld him. If we are talking stud fees I too bred my mare to a Multiple National champion stallion that complimented my mares bloodlines, and he had the personality qualities I wanted, stud fee in 2006 was $1500 he was young with only 1 year of foal crop and now he they are getting $2500 stud fee. He produces very nice quality foals that are now proving themselves in the show ring. Please procede with caution...good luck
 

Mary Greer
Breeding Stock
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 206
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well everyone, Thank you. I am not for any reason offended at all. I kinda expected a reply by now if he had improved as they said he did. I am wanting a stallion or stallion prosect for the future. This one would compliment my mare some but may bring the foal to lower value in others.I breed for quality, that is how I got baby Jack whom will definately be in the show and rodeo rings. As for pedigree on this particular stud it is good in my eyes but I looked further back and there is ALOT of inbreeding on his sires side. If I do end up getting this one he will definately be gelded.
 

Ad TB
Breeding Stock
Username: Ajvtbs

Post Number: 834
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't really know much about quarter horses but I think stallion selection should follow the same criteria for any breed. There is so much over production of many horses including quarter horses and what I breed TB's. In the current economic climate I don't think breeding from substandard mares and stallions can be justified. If you are breeding for your own use, and simply breeding pleasure horses then it's fine to breed from what ever mares and stallions you choose. If you are intending to be a commercial breeder it's an entirely different game. You need to try and breed quality with quality aiming to produce off spring that will be sought after and stand out.
As a TB breeder we will only breed to stallions that have performed on the track, there is no market for stock from stallions that have not been talented race horses. We also try and breed to commmercial stallions who's stock have sold well over the last few years and who's progeny have performed well on the track. We're also looking for correct stallions that produce coprrect individuals. We spend hours researching particular stallions and use a specific criteria to select them
* Their rating as a racehorse, i.e how good were they when they raced
* The distance they raced over, are we looking to breed for speed or stamina
* How their progeny have performed on the track in recent years
* How progeny with a similar pedigree to the mare we want to cover have performed on the track
* How the progeny have performed in the sales ring, i.e how commercial is the stallion

Typically we spend between 10,000 and 50,000 euro on a covering, sometimes more, sometimes less.

There are TB stallions who cover for as little as 500 euro and as much as 200,000 euro. We sell all our mares progeny so we also have to think about the future and when the mare is covered it'll be two years before that covering becomes a yearling ready for sale, sometimes you need a crystal ball to predict what will be popular in 2 years into the future. Most of the time we get it right but sometimes the stallion can go from being very popular to bombing.

I think the most important thing to decide is if you are breeding for yourself with no intention of selling or are you a commercial breeder wanting to make money from breeding.
 

Mary Greer
Breeding Stock
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 207
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Friday, May 29, 2009 - 06:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am nore of a personal breeder myself. My mare was very poorly used beforeshe came to me and over the past 2 years I have tried calming her enough to compete. Her first foal was very much a quality baby and I had alot of offers on him (he had doc bar,hancock,hollywood dun it,freckles playboy ect. you can see further by looking up IR Pistol Playboy on allbreedpedigree.com) Her current foal that was born May 02,09 is also high bred and I have already had offers on him in which I do not intend to take the offered amount of $25,000. The stallion was never competed due to an injury but his foals are nice and correct in all ways. As for this current boy. The owner is sending me more photos of him and his foals in the morning so I guess we will see. If he is not 100% quality I will not take him. I need a stallion that is easy to train,calm with the girls, and excetionally calm with people as I always have yung children around. They are saying that he is gentil but due to their own medical problems he has not been broken in yet which is a MAYJOR red flag for me as a 5 year old should have been broke as a 2 or 3 year old 4 at the latest. They say he has just stopped growing enough to work him and that he is around 16hh. He is registered AQHA and APHA (for breeding only with paint) This is all I know about him at this time. If this is the case I will let someone else buy him as he will not suit my needs.
 

Mary Greer
Breeding Stock
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 208
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 01:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I got the updated photos. He is ALOT nicer now but I am not going for him. I am kind of worried that "his" pedigree is not actually his as there is only one horse that resebles him in it. His foals are nice but I dont think he will compliment my mares and I really dont think at 5 years old that I could turn him around as a gelding either. He is unbroke so I'd have to start him from scratch and I have a fractured back so I cant afford to be thrown thinking that he is as gentil as the people are saying and he turns out not to be. If I had raised him he'd be totally different. Its all in how they are raised and fed if they will be good horses or bad although I've seem some pretty sorry looking puny colts turn out to be magnificant stallions throwing nicer foals than the "nice from birth" studs... I am not chancing this one.
 

Ann
Yearling
Username: Northernperch

Post Number: 72
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 08:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds like good reasoning on your part Mary. On all fronts both the breeding and the training. (A friend just got bucked off her horse and broke her collarbone....we break and not bounce at a certian <cough> age.)

The right one will come along!
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1500
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 10:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ann you are so right! I do not bounce anymore, but I THINK a lot more before I get on a horse! Clinton Anderson says - the more work you put into a horse from the ground, the less time you will spend hitting the ground. I couldn't agree more!
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 2476
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

Glad you came to a good decision....:-)
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2362
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds as if you have come to a sound decision Mary, it's hard to pass up a nice stallion who compliments your mares, and it is good to see that some folks actually put a little more thought into it than just looking at color and a price tag. Refreshing!
 

Mary Greer
Breeding Stock
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 209
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 02:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, I sold my gelding for a good price to good people who will care greatly for him (they now including him have 3 horses and 100 acres) and I went to the auction to see if they had a well bred nice stallion and there was a could that would have had very nice foals and had proof of the abilities as in performance records and foals performance records but I was out bid on both of them :-( one was a black APHA with a thin blaze, 4 white feet and 2 of the bluest eyes Ive ever seen. The other had the breeding but his temperment twards other horses could have been alot better. I ended up waiting around to see if theguy who had out bid me on the black would sell him to me for a little more than he won him for and he didnt show. Just as I was about to leave a friend of a guy was talking to me about the approx. 100 head that were being shipped to Mexico for slaughter and I spotted this little yucky looking 2y/o grade filly in the corner being beat up on by the other mares and I just coulnt pass her up! She was prooving to be quite wild atthe sale but I walked up behind her(stupid i know) after paying for her as he wouldnt let me in the pen to look her over, I layed my hand on her thin boney rear end and said "its ok Sweet Pea, nobody can ever hurt you again while your with me" She never tried to kick and loaded right on my trailer without a fuss and rode home (nearly 2 hours) without any trouble. I got in the trailer with her at home slipped a halter on her with no troubles and led her to her stall. Since then I have clipped her bridle path with electric clippers brush her coat, combed her mane and tail and put a bareback pad(thats all I would put on her at this time due to her weight) and cinched it up walked her around with it and she didnt do a thing but look at me as to say "Ok when we going for a ride?" of course Im not gettingon her for awhile until she gets at least 150 pounds on her. I sure am a sucker for those rotten praying for a glue factory horses... I run a sort of rescue type thing. I think I may keep this little girl though. I'll post pics soon. OH! just a FYI She will not be bred unless she has already been exposed prior to me buying her. She has everything a good broodmare consists of but no registration and I dont want her foals to end up where she almost went. Her pain is over now, she will never have any more.
 

Ad TB
Breeding Stock
Username: Ajvtbs

Post Number: 854
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 12:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's such a great story Mary. Good on you for saving a poor starving filly. I'm so glad she now has a good home and will have a much better life with you.
 

Rusti
Breeding Stock
Username: Rusti

Post Number: 436
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 02:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mary that is wonderful...I wish the other 99 could find homes like the one you gave her...can't wait to see her.
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1509
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ood for you! That is exactly why I stay awqay from the auction. I end up saving at least one every time.
 

Mary Greer
Breeding Stock
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 210
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 12:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Same here. I cant come home with an empty trailer.. I will be taking some photos of her hopefully tomorrow evening. My grandma is back in ICU so im not sure if I'll be able to or not. "Sweet Pea" is doing very well. She had her first bath and I nelt down behind her (not thinking of getting kicked) and washed her white sock with soap and water and she never budged! She LOVES bathes!



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