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Stallion Rings

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Stallion Rings « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Andrea Barnes
Nursing Foal
Username: Gsagain

Post Number: 15
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 02:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all,
I know this is a board to discuss reproduction, but if I can't get my boy to control himself, there won't be any reproduction going on!
I have a coming 4 year old, Section A Welsh stallion.
While his attitude and willingness to please is there, his control over his organ is lacking!
When he's taken to shows, as soon as he gets off the trailer, he automatically drops. He's not nasty or aggressive, he's just hanging.
No amount of backing, trotting, lunging, or thwacking gets him to pull it up. He stands and poses great for the judges, except his fifth leg!
He's been at the trainer for four months now and while she has experience with many types of stallions, she's not run into this problem before.
At one of the open shows she took him to, the judge DQ'd him because of it, but told her he would have won the class if he'd not been dropped and she should get a stallion ring for him and that would solve the issue.
The plan was to use the stallion ring a week before the shows and then taken off after the show. The vet came out to measure him, but she hasn't been able to find one in his size. Does anyone have ideas on where to get one?
Right now, he's riding and doing great and his trainer has nothing but good to say about his willingness and attitude and we feel that the stallion ring is the best option right now.
Thanks!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2159
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He's a teenager...! Like we always say, "ignore the symptoms, and treat the cause". Change what he's thinking about or looking at - i.e. the cause of the response, not the response itself. Penises do not have brains - and it's the brain you need to make contact with.

Stallion rings have been demonstrated to not only potentially cause penile injury, but also to have the potential to increase masturbation (McDonnell SM, Hinze AL; (2005) Aversive conditioning of periodic spontaneous erection adversely affects sexual behaviour and semen in stallions; Animal Repro. Sci. 89:77-92). I don't think you want either of those things to happen...!

It is also important to be aware of the fact that if you do something to cause him pain when getting an erection as a youngster, then you should be prepared to deal with behavioural issues when you actually get to breed/collect him. Think logically - if you have someone reach under you to do something unpleasant that hurts, what is your reaction going to be if someone reaches under you to wash your penis or guide it into an AV? The typical reactions will be to kick at the perpetrator (something I also feel inclined to do when I see someone abusing the stallion's penis! :-)); or to withdraw the erection quickly out of harm's way - if it even appeared in the first place... Some stallions so abused will refuse to even get an erection if they are on a lead-line!

The response of the judge was - assuming that your stallion was doing nothing more than standing there with an erection (i.e. not screaming and dancing) - indicative of the knowledge level of the judge, not the quality of the horse. In other words, the judge was incapable of seeing "through" the erection, and was obviously not a knowledgeable breeder (whether they were knowledgeable about other things or not). And that's a sad reflection on the standard of the showring, not the standard of the animals in the showring... :-(
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 752
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos: Applause to you! I couldn't agree more. My AQHA stallion several years ago was in an Open Halter Class where he received a First Place...not necessarily because he was just that much more outstanding than others in the class but because the Judge recognized that the mare directly in front of him was in full heat, proceeded to pee & wink non-stop and other than a display of the anatomy, my boy remained perfectly calm, not a whinny, not a hair on his body moved, judge felt that if he had that much self control he deserved the edging in the class...sorry Andrea, LOL, but what cost your boy a placing in a class actually won my boy a trophy. I think JOS is absolutely correct, if he's behaving great and the only issue is showing himself, I wouldn't worry about hurting the boy with using a ring but rather instead, blowing off just one judge's opinion of what is proper.
 

Samantha
Breeding Stock
Username: Dressage_diva333

Post Number: 314
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I first got my Sec. A stallion, he was pretty bad about dropping when in work. I just put him to work, get him doing something more complicated (like Jos said, make them use the brain). We just recently took him to a show, he dropped only once, we backed him a step or two, then he was fine :-)

It just takes time, and patience.
 

Andrea Barnes
Nursing Foal
Username: Gsagain

Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand what you are saying JOS and I agree with not punishing the organ for dropping. What I know of a stallion ring is that it stops the behaviour from happening. In Frodo's case it would stop it from happening at the shows and then removed when at home.
My trainer agrees that she's not wanting to hit or punish him for dropping as he'll get defensive around his sides and it won't deter him from dropping.
We've been working on this issue for a year now and nothing is working and we're both at a loss. She's saying it's not a training issue, but a hormonal issue and he just can't control it. His attention is on her, and we've tried Vicks as well.
So what do we do? Just bring him home and not show him anymore? Like it or not, dropping isn't acceptable at the shows here.
 

Andrea Barnes
Nursing Foal
Username: Gsagain

Post Number: 17
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, September 15, 2008 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

And just to add. I sent Frodo to this trainer because she did have a huge background in stallions and hers were always well mannered and she was confident she could "fix" the issue.
Now she understands the extent of the problem I had with him and now we're in the same boat!
So I'm guessing no one has leads on where to find a stallion ring?
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1188
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2008 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A stallion ring does not fix the issue if its hormonal I would talk to a vet and see if you can have his hormone levels checked. Maybe there is a suppliment that can be given instead of a ring. I wouldnt bring him home id just keep showing him and if he never takes a first bc he hangs out then that shows how narrow minded ppl are.
I do not think that four months at the trainer is adequate time to say its not a trining issue as he ages he should gain better control of his penis. He is just a teenagr after all if human boys cant help why do we expect our euine boys to help it. As long as he minds his manners id give it more time or breed a few of your mares and geld him.



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