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Yearling colt "gags" when near stallion

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Yearling colt "gags" when near stallion « Previous Next »


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corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 215
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 02:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok this is kind of strange behavor i thought but...

well the little guy is just over a year old intact, and clearly droped both sides. hes never showen any type of studly behaver over the fence or even when tied next to the girls. they will show to him but he could care less!
This last few weeks everytime he comes to the gate with the stud he will stop square feet spread slightly, sniff his (studs) muzzle then duck and proceed to "gag" !! like i put a bit in his mouth for the first time. I thought he might have grass stuck but he will keep doing it. walk around then proceed to duck and gag. he kind of rolls his tought up the roof of his mouth and then out like hes tring to get something out.

HE DOESNT DO WITH WHEN THE STUDS NOT THERE WITH HIM. he doesnt do this to the guilding, r the mares at all. its not the rolled upper lip thing eather. Im all stumped.

anyone have this happen? i thought it could be like the baby trying to tell him that hes not threating or something. the cold has had ulsers, could this be something to so with that ? The boys have been together for 8 or 9 months by them selfs. across from the mares for about 3 or 4 months now. This jsut started at most a month ago. but noticed it as unsual about a week ago

ANY THOGUHTS??!!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2113
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 07:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds a bit like, as is probably akin to, a perfectly normal submissive behaviour which is seen commonly in foals called "mouthing", where the foal rapidly opens and closes the mouth.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 720
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Corina, it's normal...I have a 32" stallion who has recently broken down the gate to try and kill my 24" stallion. Now every time the little guy passes big guy's stall, he stops and does that mouthing.....It looks to me like a submissive behavior. He also adds to it the "bow" where he bows down in front of the other stallion....he just doesn't want his butt kicked again.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 612
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Corina: Jos and Diana are giving you the straight scoop on that. It sounds to me like he's doing the foal submissive behavior that is just telling the other horse "I'm just a baby, don't hurt me, I'm not challenging you" You'd have to ask other's opinions, but in my experience, as they get around 2 years old, I don't notice this mouthing behavior anymore. But, I'm assuming that it disappears because a rank or pecking order has already been established at that point.

(I think it is so cute and funny to watch them when they get introduced to their pasture/barn mates and exhibit this.)
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 722
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My tiny stallion has come 2 this year, and only started doing it after a good ass whippin'
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 216
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 12:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

they have been together for quite sometime and the stud beats up on him a little the little guy just recently started this. I havent noticed any marks on him in a while maybe thats why thanks guys will the colt ever be higher up if he exibits this now?
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 727
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 01:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

no
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1087
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 09:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

the colt has come into himself is why he's started this now and not before. If left intact he may b will ing to keep hi place under the stallion or he may decide to challenge his sot you just never know. Also this behavior will not transfer to being submisive to other horses especialy as he ages. Its perfectly normal. My 2 yr old stallion does this to my 12 yr old stallion.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 621
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, August 01, 2008 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana: LOL...you are so funny! And I agree with Diana, the pecking order in your herd has already been established. I have had my "herd" for a long time and rank doesn't change as age has progressed. Whoever is at the bottom stays at the bottom and whoever is at the top stays at the top. The only time I've seen any change is when a new member is introduced, then after what Diana terms is "some ass whoopin", the order may adjust to accomodate the newbie into the ranking system. My omega is always the omega and my alpha is always the alpha, but then there is additional inside ranking that occurs. For instance, my alpha is definately my stallion but he is submissive to my "quiet alpha" mare...who is just a real grouch to other mares and believe it or not is nonaggressive to the stallion but all she has to do is walk over to his feed pan and he will back off like its the parting of the red sea. My gelding and stallion fight continually for lead male, but a great deal of it is "play". Now, that changes when there are mares in season. The stallion gets serious about his rank and my gelding will back off and find himself isolated on the other side of the field. But when there isn't anyone in season, my gelding will actively challenge my stallion. He can and does whoop up on my stallion!

The ranking saga continues within the foals. My 5 week old filly holds alpha rank among the babies. My two 4 month old intact boys are submissive to her but she's seriously attitudal...LOL...poor little Moose does the mouthing to her when she walks over (but I seriously think he's more submissive to the filly's mother, who will in a heart beat, mow down anyone who even looks at her filly wrong...tehe). If all of them were to stay within their own "herd" and never leave the farm for a new home, I doubt that I would see much more than some isolated and fruitless challenging occur as they aged as their ranking is being established now.

I can tell you that we have raised cattle and hogs for years and the ranking orders are much the same as horses. We currently have our alpha bull who is top dog and everybody knows it. We have an additional bull who is just as big now at three years old as Zorro. But, because he was introduced into the herd at six months, and he "challenged" the big guy as a teenager (got his butt whooped), he holds bull rank number two and he does not even challenge anymore, regardless of a cow being in season or not. (That doesn't mean he doesn't try to sneak in a breeding here or there when the big guy isn't looking...LOL). Now, placed in a new home with a new herd with a bull he doesn't know, I would have to say, yes, he would challenge then. Its nature and until someone gets their tail put between their legs, the alpha is up for grabs. But staying in the same herd, I would say that the challenge with the existing alpha would be minimal (unless, of course illness, old age, or other biological indicators give #2 a glimpse of success in achieving alpha).

OMG...I'm just way too into the whole psychology thing. LOL. I guess I find it extremely important in my farming knowledge. You definately want to know where your alpha and omega's are when you get into a hog pen (or an active breeding cattle lot for that matter). Its can be a serious mistake to find yourself between an alpha and an omega sow at meal time.
 

Cjskip
Breeding Stock
Username: Cjskip

Post Number: 673
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Saturday, August 02, 2008 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, bet there is a story there too-"It can be a serious mistake to find yourself between an alpha and an omega sow at meal time."
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 626
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 05:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cj: LOL! Yes...there's ALWAYS good stories with that. (PS...you have not seen anything until you have 11 sows with different heat cycles...OMG...GROUCHY is not the beginning of that word. You better not find yourself between the alpha and the omega when they're in heat either...whew!!!! I'd rather crawl under my "less-than-mannered stallion" in the middle of breeding a mare as to stand in between two sows in heat!) LOL! Its not pretty. Makes the crocodile hunter look like he's handling puppies.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 627
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, August 04, 2008 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

BTW...Mr. Alpha Bull #1 has left the building, so to speak, as of Saturday. We are between calves so there is nothing for him to breed. He nonchalantly mowed down a fence and is currently on a "walk about". He did this last year at this time and ambled down Big River to a neighboring farm a few miles away where they just put him up with their herd until about November when we brought him back home to take care of round two cows who had birthed. So, Joey, a/k/a horny pain-in-the-&*% is now currently bull #1, at least until Zorro comes back home and he has to get a butt-whoopin all over again.

Lena is successfully bred. So another June foal for her next year. Blossom has not come into heat for 6 weeks now (I think she got bred through the fence) and Echo is just now starting to come in...so with a little luck, we'll have everybody rebred within the week. Its so hot here that I don't know that anyone's interest level is high enough...including the big boy's.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 746
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 02:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, that's hilarious!!! Zorro just turns himself out and wanders about? I guess he's breeding the neighbors cows too.....? Of course they probably don't care, what with free calves and all... LOL
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 630
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2008 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana: Yep...pretty much...and at a whopping 2,000 lbs, he can "turn himself out" any darn time he feels like it. LOL! (He is such a sweet puppy to work with though...he loves his humans...laziest thing you've ever seen, even at feeding time he's the last to show up at the trough. He doesn't see any reason to expend any energy beyond the slow, amble of a walk.) And of course he's at the neighbors breeding cows! HAHAHAHA...what else is there to do in the midst of August?!?! My neighbors are pretty awesome and they have their own Angus bull so its not like it wrecks their herd to have him around. We always laugh at how the two bulls whoop up on each other, one is king for a day, then the other is king for a day. El Zorro doesn't ever, ever leave our place...other than this EXACT time of the year. I think he's got a few girlfriends that he likes down the road, or maybe he just wanted to go see his calves on the ground from last year, or maybe he just likes Big River, or maybe he's just learned that a break out means lots of grain being fed to him to "walk him" the mile and a half home. LOL!

And my husband complains about what a pain my horses are...LOL...THEY'VE NEVER broken out of our property line...I can't tell you how many times I've looked for bulls, cows & calves in the 1,000's of acres surrounding our farm!

BTW...our Angus cow is due in the next week and she ALWAYS breaks out to calve...she likes the back 350 acres of our other neighbors field to birth in...that's a fun time to bring her back with a new calf! So I'm expecting jail break number two at any time!



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