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New colt owner - people consider my horse dangerous

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » New colt owner - people consider my horse dangerous « Previous Next »


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Barbora Kalinova
Neonate
Username: Brambik007

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello everybody,

thank you for your help in advance. I appreciate every advice I can get here.

I own a 2-year old andalusian colt, who just came to Europe. He has a long trip behind him and while my family is looking for a farm to buy, he has to be boarded. This is proving to be a very frustrating experience. I found a place where they appeared to be very friendly and great before my horse arrived. After he came, they were telling me from day 2 that he needs to be gelded and is dangerous and that I, as a girl (I am 31) can never handle him and that he will kill me one day. He is a big boy (close to 16 hands already) and did a little showing off the first morning in the pasture. This is mainly because he has not seen a mare in over a year and now there were 4 girls in the other large pasture and all in heat couple days later. Situation got so bad that my boy would run along the fence and would not stop. He is normally a very sweet natured boy, easy to lead in and out of the pasture (does better on a rope halter with pressure points than a shank - he gets mad when has the shank on) but this is becoming an issue. He is getting moved tomorrow evening to a different place where the natural horsemanship girl trainer is very gentle and not afraid of stallions so that should be better for him. But in terms of the mare thing, there will be couple there as well and at this point I am not sure how to proceed so that he will calm down? Will this improve with age? Is this the terrible two I keep hearing about (he just turned 2 a month and a half ago)? Any suggestions? We will be working with him now using the natural horsemanship to get him to calm down and get settled but anything in particular that helps with this problem? I need to be able to take him to shows, ride him next to mares, in the country etc one day and really cannot have him doing this then :-(

Also, any calming supplement I can get that will help him calm down in general?

Thank you again for helping. I really am in love with him and want to make sure I do what is best for him. At this point I am just getting very frustrated about people being afraid of him...he is just 2 and just got here, why the pressure?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2106
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, July 27, 2008 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The best calming supplements are time and good handling.

There are very few genuinely bad stallions, but a lot that have been badly (or not) handled. If you are not familiar with handling a stallion, find someone that is, has good abilities, and is understanding of stallions. Simply because someone does handle stallions does not mean that they are good handlers! Watch the stallions and how they react around the handler. There is no need for the majority to show fear, aggression or distrust. While there are always exceptions (hence watching the handler with several stallions, not just one or two), most stallions will react to the way they are handled fairly quickly, so it can be easy to see how competent the handler is based upon the stallion's reactions and behaviour.

Be aware that at the age of two, you are developing patterns of behaviour that will last a lifetime. Good handling now will make (hopefully!) for a "good" stallion for a long time. Bad handling now... well, you get the picture...
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 209
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

youve got it perfect jos.
The fence running and the hanging out proally wont stop! as long as hes not "agressive" tword people or out right mean to a mare. The people prolly saw him sniff one of the mares and squeal as they do. he might have even reared or pawed a bit but thats expected by any stallion. Thats how they find out if they are ready. thats not agression that hormones. Its like putting a 16 year old boy on a nude beach!!

My boy does all this every day it actually keeps him in shape.I bet he runs 10 miles a day at least. only stops to poop and grab a bite. He respecks my fence( just hot wire and strait wire) but he can get a little to excited. He was fully erect the other day for almost an hour!
Ohhhh they might have seen your boy playing with it to. They tence and release slaping them selfs on the belly. Not bad just offecive to other people who might have been there. But i keep on my boy about breeding and riding and how they are different things. You wont be able to let your guard down with him thats part of the responsibility of a stallion owner but thats for the better anyway. it will keep everyone safe. You might read some of the posts in the general stallion and you will find thats it all very commen, especially in the 2-4 range.
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 210
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, July 28, 2008 - 08:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ohh i wanted to tell you DONT EVER LET ANYONE TELL YOU THAT BECAUSE YOUR A GIRL YOU CANT!!!! thats bull-****!! your only as big and tuff as you think you are.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2112
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 08:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

No... you're only as big and tough as the stallion thinks you are... :-)
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 714
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 09:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, you're too funny! It's rare we get to see the humorous side of you, I like it!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 604
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 11:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, I'm with Diana...THAT was pretty funny! Unfortunately, that is my achilles heel...at 92 pounds I DO think I'm "bigger and badder" than my boys. It freaks out my family that I just "climb in" with them and just keep this calm and assertive energy thing going. They've not hurt me (well, at least not yet...LOL) by just using a "mental expectation" method.

I think you are correct corina in that there are behaviors that are just "stallion" related. My boy runs the fence line too when there is a mare in cycle. (It beats having to exercise them...hahaha). He squeals and strikes too when he is doing a "meet and greet"...doesn't strike or hurt the mare just displays himself as a stallion. He is a gentleman to his mares, doesn't bite, doesn't kick them, and believe it or not, won't mount them unless they are receptive to him. Now...if I can just get him over the food aggression issue. I think somewhere in his life, someone (like Jos says about no manner training) backed off when he pinned his ears at feeding time. He got his bluff in. I don't know how successful I'm going to be as I've never had a food aggression issue with any horse in my life, but the way I'm handling it is when he gets grain, I use a lunging crop and then I stand in front of his food bowl. He has to calm down and stand like a gentleman before I let him into "my space" (his food bucket). When he relaxes, then I move away and he's allowed to move forward to eat. It may get me killed but it was the only idea I could come up with.

Hey...I've got a question for everyone who owns a stallion or works with a stallion. I had one 20 some odd years ago that we eventually gelded because he got to a point where he would "masterbate" between standing mares...he got to a point where he didn't want to live breed anymore. (Now, remember this was years ago when AI wasn't that prominant) My vet had told me then that whenever I "caught him in the act" that I was to take the wisk end of a broom to him to "deter" him. (By the way, it never worked...I would have had to camp out 24/7 to have master that!) Has anyone had a similar experience or had a stallion be more obsessed with himself than mares? Just curious...especially with Jos as he has tons of experience working in this area.
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 213
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

mine does it al the time, i figure its his as long as he dont play with it under halter or riding time. I wouldnt hit him with a broom. but goodhard pat under the belly or a good pinch under the belly and the back up thing seems to work ok for me. but is he really hurting anythign by playing with it. No offence but most men do!

rusty pawed at food time. I would stand there and give him a good tap on the foot he pawed with. he learned quick so now h just shifts wieght and lifts his foot like hes gona paw then puts it back down!! its kind of like a dominace thing the head horse gets to eat his fill first then next in line and so on down.

i figure there is no way i have control of him unless he thinks i do. hes not a huge boy( 15 hands maybe 1000 lbs at 3) but i see it as me being one of the heard. its not allways the bigest mare that runs the heard its the meanest!my mustang is smallest and weighs the less but every one of ours horses get out of her way! i try to do exactly what one of the girls would do when they dont want him doing something. its seems to be working.

Barbora if you need any advice or any question no matter how what dont be afraid to ask. We have all been there heck im only 1 year up on ya! there are enuff of us that some ones got some advice
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1065
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 01:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi You have the right idea with the food agression thing. Dont let him eat till he's a gentleman sometimes ive been known to lead them away from the food and then back to it and be a gentleman again. I put a rope halter and lead on mine for grain time. That way if he ever gets stupid (hes a sweat heart) I can control him better a little ole me and a riding crop or buggy whip wouldnt count for much if he ever decided to be rotten so I figure that a halter and lead at least gives me a chance to pull them off balance for a head start. Ive never had to do this with a stallion yet but have on mares. free choice hay also helps some with the agression at feeding time.
Oh on a side note if the feed you are using has mollases in it sometimes the sugar can make them really onery and agressive its almost like a drug if hes only agesive with the grain you might try a cpl weeks with a feed without molasses.

I dont know why the stallion would loose interest in the mares but masturbation is common up to several times a day. They used to have these really cruel devices that you strapped on to the stallion so that when he masturbated hed wack it into nails or stiff brushes made for some horrid looking penises.
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 608
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 03:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenni: I don't feed sweet feed to him. He only gets Strategy because of the whole sweet tooth aggression. He is out on lush, thick pasture so free choice hay would do nothing for him. LOL..green grass all day is much better to his liking. But nice suggestions, I appreciate your input. Its always helpful.

I actually think that once my stallion (and it was only one of mine that ever did stop wanting to breed mares) learned masturbation he just was too intimidated by the mares that he just progressively lost interest in them. Who knows why...he was never hurt by breeding mares but he just was such a great handling stallion that you almost had to coax him to perform. He had been taught extremely great manners as a youngun and when he first started breeding, it took awhile to get him to actually mount as he had grown up with a trainer who had "knocked him down" for that type of behavior. This stallion was an interesting boy. He was my buddy. Like I said, I'm aware that masturbation is normal and common, it was just an old school of thought back then and found it interesting to comment on how things have changed.
 

Jenni Luttrell
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bugrace2000

Post Number: 1070
Registered: 02-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 03:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi its grweat that your stallion is out on grass thats much better for them physicaly and mentaly. I kep my boy out as well. He is just two but is very very shy. a mare has to be totaly in before he'll even sniff her
 

Tracy Smith
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 1378
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Tuesday, July 29, 2008 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My stallion masturbates but still loves the mares! As you know it's very normal so it makes me wonder if something else maybe even mentally was bothering your stallion and it had nothing to do with masturbation.

I never reprimand my stallion unless I'm handling him in a non breeding situation and then I just say "put it away" with a slap on his side (not his penis!) and he does. He is free to do what he wants when loose in his pasture. :-)
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 214
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 02:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They actually told you to watch him and correct it every time!! thats so funny though. of course i would like to spend that kind of time with my guy but come on poor thing would hate me!!! He can do what he wishs it his to play with HEHEHE

I dont have any food aggessions with him but i do with my mustang. She will pin her ears and look around like somethings gona jump out at her from the walls or behind a little rock. Usually one day of no grain and a good chewing-out does good for a few days! cant seem to make the imprint iwth her. shes never mean to a person but heaven for bid if another horse is around. shes even tryed to kick the new baby a few times. she never makes contact or really even aims his way. makes me wounder what she went threw before we got her to have that kind of thougth process.

anyway havent heard anything from the person that started this post?! how did the move go?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2114
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 07:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The average stallion masturbates every 90 minutes, but rarely to the point of ejaculation. This has been clearly demonstrated in research by McDonnell et. al. Mares do not need to be present, and the stallion kept in a stall out of sight of mares will behave similarly. Obviously there are stallions with higher and lower libidos, so the 90 minutes is the average.

Preventing a stallion from masturbating, using any form of torture device or punishment, is contra-indicated, producing negative psychological effects (aberrant behaviours) and in fact there is research that has demonstrated that in some cases stallions that are managed with such devices in an attempt to prevent masturbation will actually do so more often.

If someone tells you to abuse a masturbating stallion with a broom or anything else, ask them if they would do the same to their 14 year-old son if they caught them masturbating, and if the answer is "no" ask them why they wouldn't if they'd do it to their horse! (Of course, if they answer "yes" you might be in trouble!!!)
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 614
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

corina: That is sooo funny! "Its his to play with"...I LOVE it!

Jos: Wow...every 90 minutes...had no idea...hahaha...my current stallion doesn't ever achieve ejaculation. But, interestingly enough, the stallion I owned 20+ years ago that eventually stopped wanting to breed live mares, did quite frequently get to the end result. Hmmm.

And just so everyone knows...hahaha...I never did "broom" my stallion for this behavior (even though it was the old school veterinary advice at the time). Goodness...I just could never bring myself to do that to him. He was a great riding horse and I did many competitive events with him. On a competitive trail ride once, he became entangled in old barbed wire that I didn't see laying on the ground, that rode up his back legs and eventually found itself hooked around his testicles. He was such a great boy and just stood there while I crawled up underneath him and proceeded to untangle and pull out the barbs in a rather delicate and tender area. Never moved a muscle and I trusted my life to him. How can you possible "broom" a boy who lets you do that?!?! LOL I pretty much took on corina's attitude...its his to play with and he is only doing what nature provides.

By the way, my gelding does this behavior as well. I believe he was not gelded until he was a three year old...learned behavior??? First gelding in my life that I've ever noticed that on. I was actually quite shocked because I didn't know that a gelding could even obtain an erection. Educate me on this Jos...
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 616
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2008 - 12:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos: OK. Never mind on the gelding question. You just answered it in another thread. LOL
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 217
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2008 - 12:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

our guilding plays with his only when the girls are in full heat. got a good question ill ask here. THis colt i was talking about in the other thread. hes a yearling intacted and both droped (they never went back up as a baby) would he be considered breedable? i know that ive heard that yearlings can but he doesnt show any studly behaviour or even interested in girls. he wont even sniff one. ive got him seperate of course id like to guild him but i wanted to wait tell he was filled out, figure my studly needs a buddy, and i cant ride him tell 2 or 3 so just leave them hang there for now. i jsut thoguht that if he had them he would be studly, could there be something wrong?



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