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Ejaculate color...HELP

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Ejaculate color...HELP « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Amanda Mitchell
Neonate
Username: Mckulley1

Post Number: 9
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have a late 3yo Arabian stallion. He was not bred until this Spring. A little bit of history, both his sire and grandsire have fertility issues....though the sire is a bit better than the grandsire.

We are breeding by live cover. Both mares and stallion are thoroughly washed. Mare's tail is wrapped. Mares are bred as close to ovulation as possible. All have been using oxytocin therapy.

The first mare he bred did not take. I noticed no odd color or consistency of his semen (other than noting that it seemed thin is substance)

The second mare he bred DID take and she is now 45 days in foal. He seemed to have normal ejaculate and did not appear thin.

The third mare he bred did not take. The first cover was a normal ejaculate in color and consistency. The second (and last) cover was this odd deep yellow and thin ejaculate...about the color, maybe a bit darker, of urine.

That was in April/May.

Now to June.

The third mare that did not take was re-bred. Two covers. Normal ejaculate. She is due to be checked early this week though I suspect she is not bred. We also did bloodwork on her and all is normal including thyroid.

The first mare that was bred was cultured, flushed, infused and rested. Bloodwork was done and all normal. She came back into heat. She had a 43ish mm follicle yesterday so was bred one time. Normal ejaculate. Checked today with a 49ish mm soft follicle so bred her this afternoon. This ejaculate was that same yellow thin consistency. We will not breed this mare again this heat. I have my pony teaser in with her for natural oxytocin release and will continue oxytocin injections for the next two days.

Now I know that while not common, stallions can put urine into their ejaculate. But this is just nothing I've seen before and I've bred numerous stallions by live cover and AI.

IDEAS?
 

Amanda Mitchell
Neonate
Username: Mckulley1

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 06:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

PS.

If this IS urospermia....would the first cover that seemed "normal" be able to do the job if the second cover was contaminated? Especially with using oxytocin every 4-6 hours?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2046
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 07:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you're breeding live cover, how are you evaluating the semen? Looking at a dismount sample is pretty much useless other than to identify sperm presence (if there are any present - it doesn't even prove an aspermic situation if you see none in a dismount sample!).

To evaluate semen, you have to collect it. If you have concerns, that might be the next thing to do.
 

Amanda Mitchell
Nursing Foal
Username: Mckulley1

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 08:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not looking at it under the microscope.

There is a very obvious color difference between his ejaculates. Normal white coloring one time vs. deep deep yellow the next.

We are not collecting/shipping him. We don't have a vet with in two hours that would remotely have the tools for collection.
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 298
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2008 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Amanda the question I have is the same question Jos has. How are you collecting the semen that you can see the color?
If you are relying on what you see when he dismounts this is not his semen rich ejaculate.
 

Amanda Mitchell
Nursing Foal
Username: Mckulley1

Post Number: 12
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I understand that.....

I'm not sure how I can possibly write this in crayon enough for everyone to understand. I understand that the last few spurts are gel fraction. I'm not an idiot when it comes to reproduction. But we are in a situation with this colt that prevents us from doing certain things with him both due to availability in our area and per contract.

When you have residual that is as white as the box you type in to post here on one cover, and residual that is as yellow as the box you read these posts in on the next cover, and only the mare who did not experience the yellow residual is the only one who is bred wouldn't that make you ponder if you're dealing with urospermia or not?

I know Jos HATES live cover. But for some instances of contract and terms and for some stallions THAT is the only option.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2053
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 03:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK... let me borrow your crayon for a moment so that you can understand...

You cannot evaluate a dismount sample and gain an accurate interpretation of stallion issues.

If - and this is only an "if" - it is urine, how can you be certain that it's not coming from the mare?

If you're not looking at it under the microscope, how can you even be certain it's urine? It may be very low concentration and dirty semen, which can sometimes take on a yellow tint and look not dissimilar from urine.

Would it make me wonder if it's urospermia? Sure. And it would make me want to get an evaluation done so that I know for sure.

As far as my - or anyone's - likes or dislikes of live cover are concerned, that doesn't even enter into this scenario. Even the top TB stallions in Kentucky or Newmarket, England have a collection and semen evaluation performed if there's a hint of a problem.

OK... you can take your crayon back now. I'm done with it for the moment. :-)



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