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Extreme Concern 3yr old Stallion

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Extreme Concern 3yr old Stallion « Previous Next »


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Crystal Gerszewski
Yearling
Username: Spot_collection

Post Number: 82
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 12:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok this may be a long one!!

Earlier this spring I posted about my 3yr olds low libido. I sent him to collection training in January to make sure that he was ready to ship since I have a few mares that need shipped semen that have already bought futurity breeding fees. So while he was there they called me telling me that he had a low libido. I was extremely surprised since as a 2 yr old his libido was great after February so I figured he wouldn't have any problems his 3 yr old year. He covered 7 mares his 2 yr old year and settled all of them on his first try! Then I sent him to training for a few months this fall and I got him back in November and let him be a horse til February when he went to collection training. Anyway, they finally got him collected after 3 weeks of him not showing much interest. his count was a bit low for what they said they would like to see but it was his first collection and it was the first breeding of the year so they weren't too concerned. His motility was great they said. So I brought him home and started breeding mares. He covered 3 mares no problem. Then after my first mare had her foal I bred her on her foal heat and she kicked at him a few times and she did connect, nothing bad but just scared him. Since then he has started taking a long time to drop and become erect. And the 3 mares that we bred came up open, I asked the vet about it and she said that they look clean, 2 of them were first time breeders and the other has had a few. Now the vet mentioned that they could have been in transition so thats what I was hoping for. Well here I am now after breeding 2 of them twice now and they are coming back in. I am EXTREMELY concerned because I have 9 mares to get settled that I own, 2 shipments going out and 4 other already paid for futurity breedings. The reason I put so many breedings out there is so that I can get his name out and now I don't know what to do. It is consuming me and I am very nervous about it. When he does cover mares he has no problem with ejaculating. Once he is erect he means business, it's just getting to that point that takes forever.

I am wondering if there may be something wrong healthwise, like an infection or anything, please help!! Thank you
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1858
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as the stallion's libido is concerned, there are probably several factors at work, and some other possibilities. Simply because he is breeding mares does not mean that he has an adequately developed libido to be "good" for semen collection. There is a huge difference in stimulus between breeding a mare and breeding an inanimate object (mount and AV). That is why we will not work with colts younger than 3 for collection training, and even then at 3 some are not yet adequately developed.

The next factor to consider is that some colts may lose enthusiasm for breeding if overbred as youngsters. Dependent upon how many times you bred the 7 mares, that might be an issue. If you just bred each mare once, then you are probably OK, but if each mare was bred 4 or 5 times, that might be part of the problem.

What was the trainer's attitude toward stallion-like behaviour? This too could be part of the "puzzle" (and it may not be just one problem but a combination of circumstances). If the trainer aggressively dissuaded the colt from behaving like a stallion, he may now consider that to do so is dangerous.

The fact that you encountered a mare that was not completely receptive may have reinforced his concept that all is not good in the breeding world, so why bother taking the risk.

Without actually seeing the whole situation and the stallion's responses in the breeding/collection shed, I can't really comment with certainty, but the above may prove of value.

As far as fertility, I would recommend having a semen evaluation performed, as well as test breeding some known-to-be-fertile mares under carefully controlled optimum conditions. It sounds as though the breeding situations so far may not have been ideal ("looks clean"????? Non-confirmation of ovulation etc.).
 

Crystal Gerszewski
Yearling
Username: Spot_collection

Post Number: 83
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 23, 2008 - 10:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I do understand the low libido when breeding a phantom, I mean let's face it...it's just not as appealing for them to breed. They did use a mare on the side of the phantom, but that is also different to what he was used to. The trainer that had him in training had owned a few stallions in the past and I saw her when she worked him and showed him and she did not get after him when he dropped, instead she would just walk him around until he put it away. And she said that he never talked when she rode him and she wouldn't have gotten after him if he did. He did have a rearing problem as a 2 year old and he was worked hard at the trainers to make sure he was getting over it. We are taking him to the world show this coming year so she did push him, but nothing too extreme. I can kind of explain what he acts like to you. In the breeding shed for some mares he will drop and be ready to go in no time at all, all it takes is sniffing thier nose. Others he will be excited, walk up talking a bit touch noses with them and then start moving back, he may drop a little and then suck it back up quite a few times. After he sniffs thier vulva he does the flehman response and he sucks back up immediately and then goes on to sniffing them and sometimes dropping sometimes not. This is another thing I was thinking today. When he was at the collection training stable they did stand there and let him poke at the mare quite a bit, does he think that he needs to do this everytime now, or maybe he's taking advantage of the poking game. Just a thought. I did go to school for equine, and a huge part of my schooling was repro, so I do know when he mares are in heat and we did have the three mares that didn't take on the first round ultrasounded and checked for any abnormalties, they were scheduled to come into heat soon after the ultrasound and we bred them every other day.

Thank you so much for your info, and I hope to hear more, like I said I do know quite a bit about breeding but it's always different when it's yours and I love learning everything I can about this so please let me know what you think!!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1864
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2008 - 11:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

From your description, it sounds like a stallion that is bored with the breeding process, suggesting overuse as a youngster.

I would also get a semen evaluation performed including culture in case there is a bacterial issue causing pain.

Reasons for failure to breed/collect essentially fall into one of three categories:
  • Physiological;
  • Psychological;
  • Environmental.
Take a good hard look at factors in those categories, and you will likely find an answer!



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