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Colored stallions Poll

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Colored stallions Poll « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 11
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 02:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

They say "There is no such thing as a bad color on a good horse"
Yet, color seems to have become more and more popular and sought out, so I am very interested in getting some honest opinions from everyone on the subject of choosing a stallion and how color may or may not have been a factor in that decision.
I would love to hear everyones thoughts and opinions on this subject wether you breed or not.

Did you set out looking for a stallion that offered color? (dilute,tobiano, grey ect.)
When faced with several stallions you liked very much did color become a part of the final deciding factor?
Did a certain pattern (overo/tobiano) or fact that a stallion was Homozygous black based play a part in the decision?
Did you outcross to another breed or even consider doing so to get a desired color or pattern that is not found in your mares breed?

I am fairly new to this board and thoroughly enjoy all the knowledge and information found among the diverse horsepeople here and would love to hear your thoughts on this subject.
 

Kim Peavy
Weanling
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 36
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 06:16 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Phyllis: I have a Tobiano Paint Mare. Her dam side is QH and sire side is the paint line. Her sire was homozygous. When I thought of breeding her this year, I was hoping to get a baby that will enhance her one fault...she is built somewhat downhill. I also was looking for that flowing dressage movement. She is total QH build. Very big hip, large chest, but really pretty head. She is proportioned very well. I was also looking for something close by cause I wanted to meet the stallion. I found a Friesian/TB Black stallion nearby in his intro year of breeding. That was a plus, as the stud fee was very reasonable. He is 16hh, but not real stocky, but built very nicely, but his moves are to die for. I was not really concerned if the baby had color or not, because at this point, we have the paint and two appy geldings...so a solid would be nice too. The plus side is that he is homozygous for black. So with her being a bay tobiano (tri colored) the chances of the baby being bay are really high and black...would be the other option...the plus would be if they are colored either way...so I just am dying to see what she and he make. But truly, the confirmation and movement were what helped me select the stallion...I did know I wanted a darker foal...no more white for me! LOL...so that was a big plus too! Hope this helps, Kim
 

Kris Moos
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kris

Post Number: 1121
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 10:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,
I hope none of you mind my long post as I will share with you my story...
I have a well bred Arabian mare (Sanbara Tsalli-Tsulybration-gamaar) mare that knew I wanted a stout half quarterhorse buckskin or dun foal out of my chestnut arabian mare http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/101_6163.jpg ... (shown at 337 pregnant) so I looked for 10 years until I found a stud that had the breeding I wanted (foundation qh~ hancock, badger and two eyed jack and zan parr bar) AND the color I hoped to get http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_5326.jpg
I also really wanted a colt... well in 2006 my chestnut arabian mare at 17 years old blessed me with a bucksking stud colt on Easter morning! shown here at about 8 hours old http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/101_6699.jpg
So I got all I was looking for....and she is now retired from breeding because I got it!
here is a photo taken of him a month or so ago at 17 months old....http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_3560.jpg
(but to ensure my chances of getting a buckskin or dun from THAT stallion I bought a mare who had a dun filly from the stallion from the stallion owner. she is 28 months old in this picture, and stands just shy of 16 hands. she is an extreme buttermilk buckskin-dun roan) http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/preciousafterbath.jpg
so when the time is right to breed her I will choose a foundation bred stallion that isnt as tall as she is because i dont need anything taller...(she has a bit of TB and halter pleasure horse in her) but has a good mind and manners and puts correct foals on the ground. I have one in mind, but he is a palomino , and for my own liking Id rather not get a double dilute (perlino-cremello) but for resale I may, so it depends if I breed her to keep the foal or to sell it. It will depend on my horse situation, whether or not I need another here, the market, and if i can find a purchaser before I breed her. ( I do not like to breed just to breed and sell)
so to sum it up I breed for WHAT I want for temperment and bloodlines for my OWN purposes, and if i can find the color that fits the description... GREAT! but i have twice in the past bred for bloodline with no regards to color!
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 282
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never bred for color personally, I decide by the bloodlines and movement. I want my horses to perform! Color can be really fun though so if I saw a stallion I really liked that also had some cool coloring that would be an extra bonus. My mare that is pregnant right now is by a homozygous tobiano arab pinto. I bought her already bred so I didn't choose the stallion but I do have to say I'm extra excited to see what I get! :-)
 

Saleste Clark
Weanling
Username: Saleste

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bought a QH stud colt, after looking around for about a year. I was being very picky, I wanted certain bloodlines (foundation), great temperment, from a proven producer, preferably younger, and color. since I wasn't in a hurry to buy a stallion, I could afford to make sure I had all the characteristics that I wanted. i finally wound up with a 4 month old Gold Cream Champagne QH colt, about 93% foundation, and he has the exact bloodlines that I was missing and wanting. turns out, we were made for each other!! I couldnt have found a more perfect horse if I had tried.

Like I said, I had plenty of time to wait and was able to be picky. I dont think one should base their decision solely on color though. it turns out I have a high percent color producer (not proven...yet!!) and color sells very well here. But, like the old cliche, a good horse is never a bad color.
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 376
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 03:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I breed homozygous tobianos. I have three on the property at the moment, a stallion, a mare and a filly born last March.

Since I breed homo tobianos, I breed for color, but not only color. I breed bloodlines and conformation which are just as important.

Since I have a stallion, I looked for what was selling in the market up here in Canada. Dilutes are very marketable, buckskins, duns, smokeys etc. Triple homo paints are also more valuable to sell than a hetero paint.

Lets face it, there are lots of horses out there for sale. You have to have something that someone else doesnt have - be that the perfect color, the missing bloodline, the gait that makes the stallion look like its floating on air, etc. They all have their importance in the breeding shed.

My stallion is a triple homozygous tobiano perlino stallion. He is homo for black, homo for creme and homo for tobiano. I dont know of another stallion with that combination out there

Add to that, hes got world champ bloodlines on the bottom and world champ producing likes on the top.

And lastly, he floats like a dream. My trainer, who has been in the business for 30 years, tells me that he is the smoothest ride she has ever had. He floats around the ring and smart... he outsmarts me alot of the time.

That gives me a stallion with all around appeal - hes got color, brains, conformation, correct and straight movement, the whole package.

Since dilutes are in such demand, him being perlino, everything he produces will be dilute - big points there too. And, since hes rare up here, I have lots of mare owners already emailing for a chance to breed to him next spring.-, which will be his first year in the shed.

Like everyone else here says, theres more to a good horse than color, but the right color sure does help :-)
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 12
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, I love everybodies take and info. on this subject.
Kim, you have to post pics when that foal arrives it sounds like a fabulous cross that was very well thought out. I'd love to see him/her.
Kris, I don't know what to say but WOW! your colt and mare are both gorgeous. I don't believe you can ever go wrong with good strong foundation QH lines and am very partial to the Two Eyed Jack/Zan Parr Bar/Driftwood lines.
Tracy, you'll have to post pics of your suprise colored foal when it arrives.
Obviously alot of time and searching has been done by all to find that perfect individual to meet their criteria and then have the extra of color as well, that's fabulous.
Debbie, it sounds like you have a win, win ,win situation on your hands. You'll be extremely busy come breeding season. And you are so right about being able to offer something different be it color,performance or other, it definitely puts you one up on the market. When you have something great and you can get that extra edge it makes things that much easier.
Myself, I didn't set out looking for color at all but it just ended up that way. Granted, I am grateful for that and think it will be an extra incentive for mare owners and purchasers of youngstock, but am also hoping the mare owners and buyers will place more stock in what is offered in the way of attributes and performance than color.
 

Suzanne Paulette
Neonate
Username: Spaulette0001

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When I was looking for my first stallion I knew I wanted a paint but was more concerned about conformation, bloodlines movement and temperment. I ended up with a sorrel overo, however he has the best temperment of any horse I have ever owned and wonderful conformation and bloodlines and does well at shows. I decided that I could widen our array of colors by choosing broodmares. So far he has thrown a gray overo; palomino overo; and of course sorrels and a bay.
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 377
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phyllis: I think for buyers, color is the last thing that they look at. Like I said before, there are lots of horses out there for sale. As both a purchaser and an owner myself, I looked for pedigree and conformation first, then I looked for color. I wanted all three. Had this fellow I bought been another color, lets say, black, I would not have purchased him, even if his pedigree and conformation were there...

I believe purchasers now are looking for the total package. I wanted a dilute. I wanted to breed dilutes. Even a buckskin would not have given me 100% dilute offspring, and a cremello would have ruled out the black based horses.

Therefore, I looked for a year for the stallion I ended up with and bought him as a weanling, which is a great risk for a stallion. At that age you really dont know what he is going to end up like, even now, hes just going on 3 and has alot of growing to do.

Its also risky to purchase a young horse, both for the pocketbook as you have 3 years of paying before he starts to pay you back, and also the risk of death and injury in the first two years of a foal's life.

Purchasers that are willing to pay the breeding fees of more expensive studs are also looking for the total package. Pedigree, show history, conformation, color, the works. There are alot of excellent stallions on the market now, its almost necessity to stand out to get noticed, be that with a show record, or with an outstanding strength in another area in demand (conformation, pedigree etc.)

Heres a picture of my boy, Im working on his stallion advertisement for the February issue of the APHA Journal. I think I've about got it the way I want it.

http://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y4/canadianhorselady/?action=view&current=Woody -Flyer-3b.jpg

deb
 

Saleste Clark
Weanling
Username: Saleste

Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debbie is totally correct. I think I may have been misleading when I said people around here (NW Arkansas) want color. They also want good all around working horses that are primarily foundation bred, but color is also a very good selling point right now...IF they also have those other qualities. People around here dont do much competively, but there are alot of farms that still use their horses on a regular basis for everything. Stallions need to have very calm temperments also, as that is a big deal around here.

When looking at potential studs, you're kinda at the mercy of the people if you want to make it big. I decided on gold cream champagne for my stud colt because that gives me about 12 different color options, so I've got a little something for everyone!!

Deb, I know what you mean about buying them young! I'm scared everyday that something is going to happen to Fender, not just b/c he's my future stallion, but b/c he's like my baby too!! I sometimes feel paranoid about him getting hurt or sick. There's so much that can happen to a baby!! Here's a not-so-great picture of my Fender:
[IMG]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc3/iesaleste/100_0687.jpg[/IMG]

I'm going to try and hopefully get some better pictures soon!!
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 378
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hes a nice looking boy Saleste, but I like the dilutes hehe.... My mare is in foal to my stallion. I crossed her with him because her strengths will overcome his faults (neck) and give me a better foal conformationally.

I only cross my mare with a stallion that will result in a better foal than the stallion or the mare. For example, my mare has a great long neck, my stallion is shorter necked. My mare has a short back, my stallion is longer backed etc.

I also require pictures from mare owners with pedigree information to be sure that the resulting foal will be in improvement. After all, Im selling his breedings based on the foals he is producing. If I let him breed to any old mare out there, the foals he produces wont be the quality I want out of him.

Some might think thats a bit snotty, but there are so many so-so horses out there that I dont want to contribute to that pool. Id rather make sure my stallion adds quality than adding quantity.

Deb
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 294
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 08:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debbie, I don't think there is anything wrong with that. When I bred my mare I had to bring her pedigree to the stallions owner and when I start breeding my stallion to outside mares I will do the same thing. I breed Arabians and unfortunately there are too many "backyard" so so Arabs out there, I want to make sure I'm breeding to quality mares. If that offends someone, oh well, probably didn't want to breed to their mare anyway!
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I very much like the idea of having the mare owners send pics so I can assess the mare. I was planning on giving a discount for approved mares and those with a show record to help attract quality mares. Adding the pictures would be excellent.
2008 will be this guys first year in the shed and I really want his foals to reflect well on him and be of the best quality possible. I'm just a bit afraid of getting some that are looking to much for color and having a mare that may not be a suitable match.
Deb, I don't think that sounds snotty either but sounds like very good breeding ethics. I agree with you and Tracy both that there's alot of so, so quality out there and that's not what I want to be a contributor to.
I purchased my guy before he was even born so the color was a nice suprise. I was very stuck on the quality of the foals from this sire/dam match and the breeder wouldn't sell the previous 2 foals due to being fillies they wanted to roll back into the breeding program so I had a deposit for the first colt born.
I knew there was a small possibility of color with him but certainly wasn't expecting it. Low and behold he came out a buckskin sabino that is Homozygous for black base and for agouti so he'll throw nothing but bays and buckskins with the exception of grey and dilute mares.
The funny part was they called me back a few days later and said they had a lovely filly out of the same sire, different mare just born and she was just like the colt in type and would I be interested. Heck yes!(I loved the type this sire throws) I bought her to and when they took pics and emailed them so I could see them for the first time I was shocked. He's a buckskin sabino and she's palomino.
I even went a step further and requested a filly the following year from either dam. The sire had passed so I went with the same dams. Darned if the one filly born, a 1/2 sister to my palomino turns out to be a buckskin.
This wouldn't be so unusual if the parents displayed the dilute gene or were QH's but these are warmblood sporthorses and the dam of 2 of them is black so i never saw that coming. We of course have determined she must be smoky black since she threw 2 dilutes. The sire everytime was TB (dark bay)and not a chance he carried the dilute gene.
I love them all dearly but do have days I look out in the mare pasture and say to myself "couldn't just one of you have been a nice bay?"
I do have several solid colored geldings and my other older stallion is a lovely chestnut whom I plan to breed to several of the colored mares.
I see alot of color coming into the sporthorse industry (which is great) and much of it is high quality, yet I also see more than I'd like that seem to be using color alone as a reason to have them remain a stud. I want his foals to be considered serious performance prospects not just colorful.
 

Saleste Clark
Weanling
Username: Saleste

Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 08:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debbie, that sounds like a great idea to me too! I plan on doing something like that, b/c I also dont want to clog up the industry more than it already is. i want all my foals to find happy homes, if not with me than with somebody who wont ever want to sell them!! I'm patial to the dilutes myself, but I just couldnt pass this boy up! Under all that champagne, he's actually a palomino too, so I've got a chance at having dilutes!! I am just so happy with my baby horse!
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 379
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Its surprisiing to me that other disciplines are now accepting color into their programs. Imagine a warmblood hannovarian for example, thats a paint. jeez louizzz ... LOL. Anyway, I've seen my first hannovarian paint cross on the jumping circuit this past summer and she was breathtaking.

I know of plenty of warmblood people that wont even look at anything with color. They all want their Big Ben look-alikes, but to each their own.

I just think its cool that the paint breed is starting to creep into other areas than just quarterhorse and performace and getting into arabian and warmblood markets too.

I had a lady with a bay hannovarian that was asking about color for a resulting foal from my boy. The foal would be a buckskin paint hanny/tobi cross. Can you imagine that foal jumping in the hunter/jumper market? Might be very interesting to see.

Deb
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 299
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The pinto is very popular in the half arabian classes but the purebred arabians are still resistant. Three years ago my mare foaled a purebred chestnut sabino filly. She can be registered pinto since she has a huge belly spot. When I got her papers back from the Arabian Registry her belly spot wasn't marked. When I called them the answer I got was "we don't show body markings on purebred arabians" I like the color but change is hard with some breeds. Also like you said Debbie, warmbloods are another. I have a friend that shows and breeds Hanoverians and she would be appalled if there were paint/pintos in the show ring. Funny huh!
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 380
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, November 09, 2007 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah, some people want to keep the breed pure, which is ok if that is what they want, but on the other hand, there are others that take the bet qualities of another breed (arabian, hannovarian) and add a dash of color - and think that is the best of both worlds.

For me, I would cross my stallion with a mare of any discipline or breed as long as the mare was the quality to put an excellent foal on the ground. I've seen cross bred hannovarian paints and arabian paints and personally I think they are beautiful.

But, like I said, to each their own.
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 02:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have dealt with and shown various breeds from Tb's,Qh's and Arabs to Gaited horses and such, and there of course is bias to a degree in every breed but there seems to be quite a bit in the warmblood enthusiasts and breeders. Many just do not accept well anything that is different. Wether it be a different outcross, color or other.
I'm not even asking that they agree with it or like it, but just be open-minded and decent about it.
Unfortunately, I speak from experience. Many people have been extremely nice, helpful and encouraging, whereas others (mostly Breeders)have been downright rude and unaccepting to an unbelievable degree.
Tracy, you'd be suprised how many breeders feel like your friend and show or say it, especially so when they are beaten by the very horse they don't believe belongs there.
This is partly why I want to do everything i can to insure we produce the very best foals possible.
It's terrible but I've gotten so I just ignore or avoid them like the plague, go about my business and leave. I don't like to appear unsocial or rude and do speak with the nicer people that approach but steer well clear of this type and move on.
When we first started attending inspections and shows with our horses (not all of which display color)I would be thrilled at how well we did and then very hurt by some of the things said by another participant (usually regarding pedigree)and it really put a damper on our successful day.
After all, in our disciplines it's supposed to be performance that counts above all.
I've since gotten a very thick hide,I was already stubborn to begin with and the word can't has never been in my vocabulary. I guess as my husband says I've gotten an attitude now when it comes to the inspections and shows. We joke about it alot.
I am a great believer in crossbreeding to get the best of everything in the the horse you want. After all, nearly every great breed started somewhere and added beneficial crosses to get where they are today, especially the warmbloods. I think some paint or QH in a Hann. is a great cross. Just think of the amatuer rider looking for that not to hot horse with the more forgiving temperment, the moves and a splash of color. What could be better? Every breed has there beneficial strong points, why not take advantage of that and blend to get the best of everything you want in one horse.
I like that you are open to outcrosses as long as the mares are quality and compliment your stallion. I agree with this wholeheartedly.
By the way, both your guys look great and the colors are awesome. Deb,your ad is fabulous.
Sorry If I rattled on. }
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 381
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 09:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phyllis: I totally agree with your point of view. I know exactly what you mean about the snobbiness that exists in the horse world. I too have seen it first hand and have distanced myself from those that stick their noses up, even those in my own discipline that I show against and dine with at banquet dinners and events through the paint world up here.

Would you believe I sent my flier around to the whole executive and membership for my paint association asking for comments on it, and I got three responses. They were the three people that I expected to get a response from. The rest, well, nothing at all. Some of these people have studs, some have mares, some have new foals, some just work on the executive and dont even show. whats up with that?

Is that because of jealousy, meanness, snottiness, clickiness between members, who knows, who cares.

When someone sends me a picture of their new horse, filly, new paint baby, asks me a question, makes a suggestion, I take it with great flattery that someone actually wants my opinion on something or has made an effort to make a comment on a picture or flier etc. Is that so much to ask?

I dont show in the jumping world, but my trainer used to and she got out, same for the QH world, and unfortunately I think its a problem in the show world in general.

I will be showing my boy and this year's filly next season in a wider market, going into the states and into Quebec instead of Ontario. There are a few of us that chat regularly that are moving away from the local show arenas. Too bad, but maybe one day these people will get their noses out of the air and find out they dont have enough numbers to qualify for an APHA approved show anymore and figure out why... too bad it will be too late by then.

sorry if i ranted a bit, but it ticks me off when things like that happen. We all have a common love of our horses and like everyone else, love to show them off and enjoy the competitions etc. Like you said Phyllis, you have to grow a very thick skin around horse people.
 

Saleste Clark
Weanling
Username: Saleste

Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am so nervous about gettin into the showing world because of people like that!! I want to show so bad but I'm not a big time breeder or anything, so I'm torn. People around here local are so nice about horses though, only a couple truly snotty people!!

Oh, and Debbie, I saw your flier in passing, and I'm no expert but I think it looks awesome! Your boy would definetly on my list if I wasnt so preoccupied with my own stallions. In fact, when I establish my breeding program, you may just have a potential customer!! He is so beautiful!!
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 300
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree completely with all you guys, I have a few horses in my barn that I know would be competitive in the show ring but I have avoided it mainly due to the politics that surround it. I have ridden dressage my whole life and have always gravitated more towards the sport horse type Arab so I was very excited when Sport Horse became more popular in this breed and have seperated from the other Arab shows. I have seen some warmblood arab pinto crosses that I thought were breathtaking and like you said Phyllis it should be the talent of the horse judged, not the look.
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 382
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Saleste. Hes my pride and joy. Im no expert either. Ive only been breeding and showing for two years now. Lots of snotty clicky people in the show rings around here unfortunately, but I try not to let that take the fun out of it for me. I compete only with myself and dont worry about what others say or do. I really didnt want to get into showing either as I knew what people are like, but with a stallion, you have no choice. You have to get him out there and get points on him, promote him and make sure everyone out there knows about him. Fliers, websites, links on stallion sites like thestallionplace.com etc. Its expensive to have a stud and promote one

If the people around you are nice, then I say go for it. Its addictive and very enjoyable if you have some people around to help and give advice and even someone to help you with training and showing experience. I certainly would never do it on my own.

Oh, and thanks for the compliment on the flier. It turned out very well and Im so pleased with it, but again, it was done by a professional and the flier also. Its just another cost of having a stallion.

Tracy, show your horses if that is what you want. Dont let anyone stick their nose up at you and keep you down. The more people that show the horses, the faster they will be accepted and maybe some of those old walls will come down and the crosses will be accepted. We can only hope anyway.

I have always been stubborn and done what I wanted to do. The more people tried to keep me down, the more stubborn I became. I guess I have those clicky stuckups to thank for the stallion I have now. I guess time will tell who was right and who was wrong, but for now, Im doing what I want and enjoying it. Who could ask for more?

Deb
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 304
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debbie, thanks for the vote of confidence :-) I'm sending my stallion out for training December 1st for a couple of months with a lady that does Arabian Sport Horses. Just like you said, with a stallion you really don't have a choice, you need to show him and market him if you want him worth anything. It made me chuckle when you said that you have the stallion you want thanks to all the cliquey people and how stubborn you are. When I first started breeding, my Arabs were not the popular halter type ones with the long necks and flat toplines so I got a lot of negative comments. Now that sport horses are becoming more popular in this breed all of a sudden my horses are great and what a good program I've got going! What I've learned from all this is that what's really "in" will come and go, you just need to decide what you like and stay strong with your breeding program. You can't go wrong with that!
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 15
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 - 01:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tracy, your comment on going with what you like and a strong breeding program is so true. Through the years and all the different breeds I've enjoyed and still do, I never really considered personally getting into the breeding end of things and never believed I would have.
Then one day I got a horse that i was head over heals about and just felt I found the best of everything I wanted in my horses. So here i am with a dozen of them and starting a breeding program.
As Deb said though, you do have to get them out there and be able to market them and there future foals so showing is one of those neccessary evils.
When I go with friends to our local shows (mostly jumping,little dressage) everyone is very easygoing and no issues. Performance and having a good time is all that counts and my husband is getting into the reining and they seem like a nice group.
When I go to the USDF sporthorse shows many of the everyday owners are very nice but it's mostly the bigger breeders and in one instance a professional handler that i need some tylenol to deal with.
The inspections are the roughest. They are nearly always held at some big breeders farm and they announce the horses pedigree and such during the judging. Many of the other competitors handling their own horses and spectators are very nice and come speak with us but I've been blasted by more than one breeder and even have one farm you couldn't pay me enough to return to because that party was so rude.
Hopefully the group of people at the sporthorse shows in your area will be nice and you have the benefit of not having to deal with inspections. If all else fails get a good stubborn streak going and charge full speed ahead.
Like Deb, I just get worse and more determined when I'm told I can't do something. Some may not approve or like it but I'm here to stay and i feel I've already proven my horses can stand their ground with the best in the sporthorse classes and inspections.
My young stallion and several of my other guys will be showing under saddle in 2008 so it should be quite interesting to see how they take us this coming year. I also plan on going to several of the sport horse in hand shows as well.
I will say though that the judges haven't seemed biased much or at all by the color or breeding and all have been extremely nice and some very encouraging.
Even if some of the participants are rude, I'm sure you can expect a fair judging.
Deb, I have no doubt many people will be eating their words in the years to come concerning your stallion and probably even beating a path to your door with their mares. It's terrible though that they were so petty as to not even respond concerning your flier. I hope when I have one done it comes out as nice.
Geez! I really need to get on the ball and get started on some good pics.
 

Saleste Clark
Weanling
Username: Saleste

Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 12:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm worried about AQHA shows around here too, ,because...well...there are none!! I have to go several hours to get to the nearest show, and that really puts a damper on things. Another good thing about being from a small town is that local breeders think that its just as impressive to see you actually 'using' your stallion. Like going out to the field and gathering cows just because it's still a necessity around here. I have alot of things working for me here!!

Debbie, thanks for your encouraging words!! I'm eventually going to have to swallow my shyness and get out there and do sme showinng. If I have to...
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 16
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saleste, I think you will find alot less bias in the QH industry as to the color, at least in our area that seems to be the case. I think it's great that you plan on using him on ranch work, for alot of people that's an big plus in the Qh's.
I'm very curious though since you have a champagne. I'm very familiar with the color genetics of dilutes and paints but exactly how does the champagne gene work?
Will his foals be 50/50 on getting the champagne gene?
Do all those that get the champagne gene get the lighter skin color, mottling or amber eyes?
 

Kristyn Sherman
Neonate
Username: Kristyn

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 03:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I bred my mare to a Hanoverian, and while I did not choose the stallion because he was Homozygus black, it did help me narrow down my selection. There are a lot of nice warmblood stallions out there with the movement, temperment and conformnation I was looking for. So it was a bonus that I could also get the color I wanted as well. I would never pick a stallion just for color, but if it has everything else and is a good match for my mare, why not get the color I want as well.
 

Saleste Clark
Weanling
Username: Saleste

Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, November 12, 2007 - 04:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Phyllis, ok, I'll try to tell you as much as I can!! Theoretically, they'll get 50/50 (I think) champagne gene, but Fenders sire threw 87% champagne, so he may throw a higher percentage. Fender is also Gold Cream Champagne, so he's a palomino underneath all that champagne, so he'll also throw palomino, buckskin, and smoky blacks...

I'm pretty sure all champagne's get the mottling, 'pumkin' skin, and amber or green eyes. Fender actually still has green eyes, and they're so beautiful!! The champagne gene is kinda frustrating, Kassie Finley knows alot about champagnes. I learned most of the stuff I know from her. There's not a whole lot known about it, but it's getting to be very popular!!

Hope that helped a little, I'm still learning!
 

Phyllis Schroder
Nursing Foal
Username: Shadowbend

Post Number: 17
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 10:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saleste,
That's great that he's champagne and dilute, you'll certainly have alot of variety in the foals colors.
I had no idea they could have green eyes though. I've seen a few and they had amber eyes but never the green. I bet that looks awesome.
 

Saleste Clark
Yearling
Username: Saleste

Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2007
Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fenders eyes are probably going to stay green, I'm sure hoping so!! They look pretty cool, since he's got the pumkin skin around his eyes that makes it look like he has purple eyeliner. I'm totally smitten with him!



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