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Cryptorchid stallion

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Stallion Questions » Cryptorchid stallion « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 24.20.81.111
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 12:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a two year old stallion I purchased as a herd sire. I was told at birth both testicles were present by both the seller and upon exam by the vet. When he arrived at my farm 4 months later one was not present. Has anyone ever heard of the testes retracting? My vet says that is impossible if it was there at birth it would have still been ther at 4 months
 

Sandy
Posted From: 4.228.252.28
Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is totally possible for them to suck them back up. I had the same situation as you. I bought my stud colt at 6 mos. of age and was told by both seller (whom I totally trust) and the vet that both testicles were present at birth. Well, my stallion is now 2 years old, and is just finally starting to drop his second testicle. I had him examined by the vet at 8 mos. old and again at 15 mos. old because I could not find a second testicle. Both times the vet told me that the testicle was very high up in the canal, but that it should drop. I was very skeptical, but like I say, now at 24 mos. the second testicle is definitely down, but it is much smaller than the other.
And my vet did tell me that colts can retract their testicles up and down until approx. 3 years of age.
I would have your vet examine the colt and see if he can find at least the tip of the testicle or something. Or maybe a different vet, considering your vet is telling you that it's impossible for them to retract them.
Believe me, I know what you're going through. It can be very frustrating when you've spent good money on a future herd sire and both testicles aren't present. I got lucky that my colt finally dropped. I went crazy for a year and a half wondering.
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 24.20.81.111
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 09:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have checked with three vets and two breeders. They all say that they are either there at birth or not. That this stallion may have been thrown by a stallion with Chryprochid genes.I have also been told that it is hereditary on the stallions side?
 

Cathy
Posted From: 65.54.98.25
Posted on Sunday, April 25, 2004 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The internal inquinal rings close 10-14 days after birth. It is possible for the testes to be in the canal and drop outside the external inquinal rings later in life. Male horses are able to suck thier testicles up close to their body for temp. control but they can not pull them through the internal inquinal rings. This is what most people see and think their horse is dropping and contracting their testes.
 

Carol Anderson (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.177.43.216
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 02:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The vet was at our home yesterday to check our 20 month old stud for 2 testicles. He only felt one. He didn't sedate him. Does anyone think we should get a second opinion? We are devastated as we have 4 mares we were going to breed him to this spring.
 

Carol Anderson (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.177.43.216
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I ended up calling an equine reproductive vet. A stud can be a high flanker and it's testicle will still drop. To check this you need to sedate the stud and they will be able to tell if if he's a high flanker or a cryptoid.
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 207.69.137.7
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Carol,
Dont get discouraged. He may still drop.
I am wondering about the terminiology of the HIGH FLANKER, I thought if it was a high flanker, it would NOT drop, but if it was just above the ring it might?
I am also wondering if the vet can feel the other testical, and it is in the (or just above the) ring, is that still a cryptorchid?
You also need to remember that if they are your mares, you could give it a try and see. If you get a crypt, then just sell them gelded. Once they are gelded, it won't matter anyway. If they are outside mares, you should tell the owners and let them decide. Sometimes people will see that as less of a fault than things they find wrong with other stallions. There is alot of research to say that it may very well not be inherited. Fescue grass during pregnancy, older mares, high heat during pregnancy, I have heard these things may be the cause, but it may or may not be inherited depending on each individual colt (stallion)
 

Emma
Breeding Stock
Username: Emma

Post Number: 121
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 07:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always thought if it was anywhere other than outside the ring then it was classed as a cryptorchoid, the ring closses over when the colt is very young. The other thing to remember is that if you do breed him and you get a colt who is a crypt it is expensive to get him gelded (which is why there are a lot of rigs out there). There is also a fair bit of research around to support that chryptorchid are inherited. Cryptorchids are very undesirable. Most breed associations will not register / stallion upgrade them
 

Deena
Breeding Stock
Username: Morganslil1

Post Number: 219
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 28, 2006 - 10:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cowboy was two before he dropped.
 

Carol Anderson (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.177.43.216
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 07:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The vet is coming on Wednesday. He said his father inlaw had a horse that finally dropped at 24 months and basically he feels that is about the longest he's seen it take.He's going to sedate him and check it out. The equine reproductive vet said if there a high flanker they will drop when bred to their first mare and you should be able to tell by sedating the horse and searching around.These are 2 different vets. If he's a cryptorchid, we won't keep him as a stud. I agree that it may be inherited and don't want to pass it on. We may breed 1 mare to see if it drops. The reproductive vet said he could geld him for $400. I guess I'll know more on Feb. 1. We own all mares and this is the first male horse we've ever owned. What's the odds of that! I even called the guy we bought him from, doesn't sound like he's going to stand behind the horse. All he wanted to talk about was his upcoming sale and he has a bunch of mares bred just like our stud. No way will I buy another horse from him. He's a large breeder in North Dakota.
 

Sandy D
Breeding Stock
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 147
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The inguinal ring actually closes prior to birth. If the testicles are not on the outside of the ring at birth, they are crypt. A good vet should be able to palpate testicles on a colt that is just several days old.
It definitely does help to sedate the horse for testicles that are difficult to palpate. Sedation just makes the horse relax and therefor unable to suck the testicles up out of anxiety.
I have never heard of letting a stallion breed to try to get the testicle to drop. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try it though.
If a vet can feel ANYTHING of a testicle upon palpation with sedation, then I would honestly say that it's just going to take time, but they should drop.
 

Carol Anderson (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.177.43.216
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 05:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hopefully my stud turns out like Sandy and Deena's. I got my fingers crossed. This is really nerve racking!
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10432
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 10:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The inguinal ring may close before birth, but may also not close until a few days after birth. The article on this site about cryptorchidism in the horse may assist in clarification.
 

Sandy D
Breeding Stock
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 152
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 01:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for clarifying that Jos...I had read somewhere that the ring closes prior to birth. It's helpful to know that it may not be closed right away.
 

CAROL ANDERSON (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.177.43.216
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My husband came home from work Wednesday night and did horse chores and came in the house whooping and hollering. The stud has both testicles. The vet was coming to pull wolf teeth on Wednesday so I had him go ahead and check also and yep their both there now! What a relief.
 

CAROL ANDERSON (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 207.177.43.216
Posted on Thursday, February 02, 2006 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tuesday night the husband checked, whoops.
 

Anjeila Valbuena
Neonate
Username: Camerondae1

Post Number: 1
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, July 11, 2007 - 04:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a stud that dropped both testicles @ 17 months and a few days later I checked him and he only had one. It has now been another 2 months and he has not dropped the other one yet. Should I be concnerned or give him more time. We have spent alot of time and money to show him and there is not point in showing him as a stud if he will not be one in the futuer. Can someone please help???
 

Jane Griner
Neonate
Username: Tj_danncer

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

On april of 2007,I had the vet out to gelded my mini stud,after checking him he said he could only find one testical.So he said he was a cryptic,but to wait till july to see if he droped the other one.Well I checked some web pages on cryptic in minis and found that they can go up to the age 3 befor they drop. So I decided to wait and see if he would drop. Well low and behold on 8-18-07 when I checked him again.There it was. In april my colt was almost a year old. So today I had the other testical removed.After telling my vet about the web page he told me that my colt had a cryptic testical he could tell by looking at it.Now this was a good sized testical no way was it out side the ring and passed through. So he said that my mini was a cryptic.Now am I wrong or what, but a true cryptic never dropes down,that is why they call them cryptorchid.So if it don't come down it is cryptic Yes or No. That is why they go into the belly and remove the testical and that is why it cost so much to have the surgery.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 1512
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

FYI, the term is "cryptorchid", sometimes abbreviated to "crypt", not "cryptic", which is something else completely... :-)

There is an article about cryptorchidism available on this site (follow that link) that should answer your question.
 

Jane Griner
Neonate
Username: Tj_danncer

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 10:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you look up ACVS you will find that a true cryptorchid does not descend one or both of its testicls. CRYPT=HIDDEN,ORCHID=TESTES
In the cryptorchid,the testicle does not descend to its final place in the scrotum, but remains in the abdomen or the inguinal canal. So the answer to my question is if the testicle drops later then it is not a cryptorchid.
Thank you Jos for letting me know that is miss typed the word crypt.
 

Drew Tutton
Neonate
Username: Tnt

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 07:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Can a stud reproduce if his testicles has not dropped? We have a 2 year and 10 month old stud, atleast that is what we were told, and he has not dropped. He is wanting to mate and we believe he might have mounted one of our mares.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2293
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 11:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please read the article about cryptorchidism that appears on this site (follow that link) - it should answer all your questions.
 

Gina McMahon
Yearling
Username: Moonlitpaints

Post Number: 55
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2009 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Jos, do you have any illustrations of the different types of cryptorchidism that you could post?
Thanks so much, it was a very informative article!
gina
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2418
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2009 - 01:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry. No illustrations.
 

Sarah Gately-Wilson
Neonate
Username: Osf

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 05:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 3 yr (coming 4yr.) cryptorchid stallion. I am told that this stallion's sire didn't drop until the age of 3, and a brother at the age of 5. The left testicle is descended, the right is palpable.

My question is two-fold: What is the protocol for administering hCG to assist in descent, and would there be any benefit to waiting until natural breeding season when the mares are in heat and testosterone levels are naturally higher?

Thank you for any information!
Sarah
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2705
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 07:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sarah, some just drop later than others. Some never will. I had a stallion as you described, with one decended and the other palpable....he was 7, and when it was hot, the testicle was down, when cold, it was hidden. Right now I have a 3 yr old who several vets told me was cryptorchid. He was palpated several times, and I was told to give it up and get a "real" stallion. The day I sold him, I went to the barn, and sure enough, there they were. LOL Needless to say, I backed out of the sale. To this day, if you look at them from afar, they are right there plainly visible....but if you reach under there, they DISAPPEAR. Even my vet was amazed at his ability to suck em up. Some guys just take longer, and usually they drop in spring when mares are coming into heat. I dont' know much about giving hCG to assist....but am the type to go the "natural" route and just wait it out. Hope you get the answers you need! Happy healthy breeding to you...and Welcome to the board!
 

Terry Waechter P.R.E. foals
Breeding Stock
Username: Watchman

Post Number: 892
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, November 28, 2009 - 09:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Last year I had 4 weanling colts and at age 6-8 months the vet checked all of them for their testicles...all four had two....

Now the same colts are about to enter their second year and none of them have both testicles visible....we are sure one of these days we will see both...they are just immature at present.
 

Sarah Gately-Wilson
Neonate
Username: Osf

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 06:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you! I have only had this guy two months and don't know his "warm weather" status, but I am not thrilled with his current condition. He does have the temperament, conformation, movement and exotic color that make me want to give him time, so...

If anyone has any hCG experience or protocol that they would like to share I would appreciate it.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2708
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, November 30, 2009 - 08:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Where are the pics Sarah????? LOL We'd love to see him!!
 

Sarah Gately-Wilson
Neonate
Username: Osf

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2009
Posted on Tuesday, December 01, 2009 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In your personal email! He needs a little more before he gets his own webpage!
 

Linda Sterling
Neonate
Username: Lindasch100

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 05:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a coming-two yr old colt, future herd sire. Neither testicle has dropped. I can palpate both: one easily, the other farther up. He does not act like a stallion and is very gentle and sweet. No incidence of this in the family line. Jos, I read the article on crypt very carefully. If I give him hCG to raise his testerone and he drops both, is he still genetically crypt? If so, I will not use him for breeding.
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3462
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2012 - 11:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you can feel both, then he's not a cryptorchid. He just doesn't like you handling his testicles! :-)

Particularly with younger colts, it is not unusual to have the testicles withdrawn closer to the body. In fact, in some cases in order to feel the second testicle it is necessary to tranquilize the horse and lay him down. It would be unlikely therefore that you would be able to feel a testicle retained even in the inguinal canal.

If in doubt, have him laid down and evaluated.

It's certainly worth giving hCG a go, but you have to determine if the testicle truly is retained first! :-)
 

Linda Sterling
Neonate
Username: Lindasch100

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 12:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos, thank you for your fast response. His testicles must be coming down; they are easier to palpate, which leads me to the next question. Do the descending testicles stretch the skin to create the scrotum? Cause he ain't got nothin' there to hold them precious balls ;-)
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 3464
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2012 - 11:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As with any area of skin, there is good degree of elasticity.

And they're not "descending" - they are already "down" but being held close to the body, which is a defensive/cold weather mechanism.



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