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Medications in the pregnant mare

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 1 » Medications in the pregnant mare « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Mary Susan Newill
Neonate
Username: Msnewill

Post Number: 7
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 02:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hope this wont be considered off topic...?
20 y/o crippled mare w/ arthritis due end of April. As she get heavier it gets more difficult for her to walk / more so as each year progresses. Is there anything on the market SAFE to give to ease the pain that WILL NOT injure or affect the foal she is carrying?
regards,
Susan
Peterson Training Center
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 242
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Susan, Bute... I know that some don't like to use it but we used it for nine months out of the 11.5 months a mare was pg. I had no choice but to keep the mare moving. The baby came out just fine with no problems. If it was a matter of keeping her comfy so things progressed as normal then I would consider it again. If the mare is not comfortable the baby will suffer too in its developement and the mare will suffer too as she is trying to support a new life. I think that at 20 years old she has probabally earned her right to be comfy! Talk with your vet, I know everyone's got a different opinion, but we did have success with Bute at reasonalbe doses. What about topical applications ? Something to promote blood flow like absorbine
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 60
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would definately try absorbine first, I'm not sure if you can get glucosamine for horses or not, but I have heard that it works well on people. I don't think bute would hurt the foal, but extended use could give the mare ulcers. Good luck.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 243
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree that bute can cause ulcers but from the several different vets that I have spoke to it normally takes huge amounts of bute to cause trouble.Sometimes you can get huge results with just a bute a day. Some I have heard even go every other day but I would rather cut the dose in half and give every day instead of a larger dose every other day. Even a half a bute in the am and pm could make a difference... take some of the stiffness away, maybe not do the same as whole bute twice a day but could make her a bite more comfy. The Glucosamine is really far more untested waters than even the bute as far as effects on a fetus. Bute has been used for a long time and the glucosamine is even untested in humans ... I would be careful. At least the bute you have many that have used it under untested conditions and achieved a healthy foal. But I do know that the glucosamine is a big help to those with arthritis in the canine world. And you have mentioned that the mare is due in april, so that would only be about 3 months of using it. It may worth a shot to see how she acts with it. If no improvement than you can always take her off it.

What is your weather conditions like ? If you are in a colder climate, maybe the use of heat lights to help warm her muscles and some sort of blanket or rug to try to keep her a bit warmer... Just a thought don't know if it would work :-) trying to come up with other methods
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 61
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 07:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, I guess I am just passing my bute paranoia on. I saw a neighbours horse die a horrible death from bute related ulcers, but the dose he had gotten was quite high.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 245
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 08:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Jenn, I know the way that you feel , this same mare that was on bute was for founder and it was medication induced. She was put on antibiotics for a infection and she was alergic to it causing her to founder. So now I don't use antibiotics for any reason unless its a do or die type thing. She is a beautiful bay and white toby paint mare. She recovered ok. She can handle being bred and carrying a foal, sometimes she gets a bit ouchy and can be riden lightly, but not as much as what we had intended her for. I am glad that she can do what she can she produces us a nice spotted paint baby every year. :-)She was on the bute for the 9 months of her pg and the baby and she both did fine.
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 62
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm happy to hear your mare recovered. I don't want to come across as saying not to use bute, but make sure you know the risks so that you can make an informed descion. The neighbours horse that I mentioned had gotten into a field of clover and badly foundered.
 

Terri Berwanger
Weanling
Username: Terrib

Post Number: 36
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know gluco supplements are untested waters, but I have had to keep my broodmare on this since she was 5 months pregnant. It wasn't a matter of just keeping pain away, she has terrible arthritis in a front ankle from racing. This was on my vets advice. She was also on bute for a month until the supplement kicked in. She is doing super now. It has made such a diffrence. She is 301 days today, I can feel baby moving, and she's doing well. I will update every one when the foal is born. I know everyone out there will think I'm nuts, but I did what was best for my mare at the time, the other recommentdation was to put her down.
terri
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 247
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 06:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terri,
I don't think your nuts. You do what you have to in any situatuion. And to me the mare comes first and baby second. You have to keep the mare comfy and healthy, if baby is born with a problem you have choices to make at that time. A baby is a by-product and you have no emotional attachment as with a aged horse. Now some would do just the opposite and say its their business and their income .... the baby and if the mare can't tolerate it than they will use them until the end. I feel in the livestock industry you must treat the horse first and keep her healthy and in good shape and then deal with outcome at a later point. Sortta like my stand on save the human mom or baby. Well, in my opinoun mom was here first and if it will be a positive out come for mom save her first then the unborn child.
wow.... I guess I opened a can of worms.


You do what you gotta do
Kim
 

Jan H
Nursing Foal
Username: Jan_h

Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 07:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would not give the mare Glucosamine as it is not recommended for pregnant horses/people. My vet recommended that I take my mare off of syn-flex because of the Shark Cartiledge and Glucosamine as well as yucca. I have a mare which has arthritis also and I have been told by the Veterinarian to give her Bute when she has trouble with the pain. I would be leary on using anything my vet has not recommended. She is doing great and is nearing her 10th month. as for the ethics issue mom or baby....hmmmm Each person is going to have an opinion about that, but this country was founded on individual freedom...so to each his/her own. I respect your opinion...with that said I feel a responsibility to both the mare and the unborn foal as I am the one who got the mare bred, so I make decisions with regards to both of them...Hope my opinion can be equally respected. Happy foaling season everyone! :-)
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 248
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 08:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan, I agree with you ! To each their own, its a free country and I respect your opinion too ! I do take into consideration the unborn foal, but I also can't let a mom go untreated and suffer from what I have caused her as well. I must do a mare justice and provide her with the most that I can. Luckley our country still provides us with deciding when and what is the best time to eliminate pain in our animal friends. If I have caused pain and discomfort to a mare , then I must provide that relief in some form and HOPE and Pray that the resulting foal is in the best possible shape and then at that time if not, if something God forsaking is wrong then I have that choice to take that foal out of its discomfort and pain as well. If we humans interfer in one fashion than we have to be willing to interfer in another. That resulting foal would not survive in the wild if there was a health issue. Just wanted to post a few of my thoughts and feelings :-)
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 63
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry I feel like I started the discourse here. I only threw glucosamine out there because my father uses it for arthritis and swears by it. I have never used it for a horse, nor have I looked into it.

Everyone certainly has the right to an opinion.
Terri, I am with you. No mare = No foal. What about West Nile Vaccine. It is not aproved for preg mares but still used.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 251
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 11:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenn, don't feel like you started a discourse here. Thats what this boards are for is to throw out ideas. Some are willing to do things others aren't . I also agree NO mare= no foal. Treat the mare first and deal with the foal when it arrives. Jenn, I also lost a 2 year old to the west nile virus. I began to use the vaccine and make sure I do it before breeding. Don't want to loose another horse to this , its not fun to watch a horse go through.I was really scared the first year we had babies due after vaccinating the mares but all ended well and has ever since. I live in Northern Indiana and the west nile virus has hit us and slowly seeing it more and more.
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 65
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Kim. I also use the vaccine, but this is the first year on broodmares. They wes vaccinated in April and bred in June but I still have my fingers crossed. I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and we were hit pretty hard the first year West Nile arrived, but the number of cases has been dropping. Here is a question I have had ever since WNV became a local issue:
In Europe they have had WNV for many years, what do they do for treatment/vaccination?
 

Terri Berwanger
Weanling
Username: Terrib

Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I am in Europe, but Ireland. We have no problems with WNV, but as you know I guess it could come this way as it was in Spain a couple of years ago. We are very lucky and only have to Vac for flu and tetnus. I give Pnuemobort to the mares at their appropriate times and to my other horses as I have a mixed yard and take no chances with my girls. By the way the other horses aren't allowed near my girls, but still. We save tons of money on vacs. No rabies here either. To be honest no publication on horses that I read has ever mentioned anything about WNV. Also I am one of the few people that I know that vacs my mares for Rhino as well. People over here don't think vacs work and will wait until something bad happens before getting vac'd. When my blacksmith first starting coming to me he always asked if my horses were vac'd for tetnus if one had a stone bruise. I'm like of course, isn't everyone? The look told me all I needed to know. TB's going through sales need to have a record of vac's and horses traveling abroad, but that's it.
Also, everyone is entitled to their opinions on Glucosomine, ect. I also trust my vet and he told me no bute for extented periods and told me to get the glucosomine. Time will tell, but her baby is kicking up a storm and all seems well. I adore my mares and treat them as more then just vessels, as do most who are on this board. That' why we're on this board! So will let everyone know how it turns out.
Terri
 

Lisa Weir
Breeding Stock
Username: Pals_pal

Post Number: 119
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 05:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Apple Cider vinegar is great for arthritis and is also safe for pregnant mares. It's even recommended for a few weeks prior to foaling.

Bute in late pregnancy can cause gastric ulcers in the foal, but these are treatable unless extreme. It also has a blood thinning action, which could cause problems if there is a dystocia. Very similar to asprin in humans, really.

I know nothing about glucosamine.

I'd try the vinegar first and go to bute if that doesn't do enough for her after a few weeks. But I'd have her on Ranitadine to protect her from ulcers if it's long term bute. I'm told this is also safe for pregnant mares.

And I would retire her after this foal....but that's me.
 

Gynna Meiller
Yearling
Username: Jw_kings_excalibur

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can attest to the Apple cidar vinegar! All my horses/foal get it in their feed once a day. My two older broodmares are in the best shape for thier ages( 13 and 15)for what they do( full time broodmares each having 6 foals. My vet could not believe the difference in them when I showed him pics of the day we got them and a year later. Bth have gained mcuh needed wieght, feet are in SOO much better shape, no fly sores or itchy skin problems and both shed out to a shiny dappled coat! I think its the good feed and the apple cidar vinegar. No colic, their coats are super soft and they dont snap crackle and pop like they use to. If its good for them, cheap and natural with no harmful side effects..I say why not. They love it too. I use about 2 1/2 oz for my adult horses and 1 oz for foals that are eating well.
 

Joanie Davison
Neonate
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 08:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,
I am new here and have been reading posts with great interest. I think this looks like a wonderful forum.
I was especially interested in this thread because I also have a 13 yr old Thoroughbred broodmare with arthritus.
I was very releived to see so many of you are in favor of using Bute. I have been sort of parinoid about using it, although I have several friends that have used it on a daily basis on their mares and never had a problem with a foaling or the health of the foal because the mare was on a daily Bute regime.
I have been using the apple flavored powdered Bute on & off during this mare's pregnancy, but now, I think I'll go ahead and use it on a daily basis because I think the pain she feels is worse than using the Bute for her developing baby. My vet said to use it also. It's a small miracle that she's held onto this pregnancy, and since she hasn't had a foal for 2 yrs., she does not look pregnant yet, she was checked at 7 months and was stil in foal, but eventually she'll start gaining wieght, so I am happy I can go ahead and use the Bute.

One member, Terri Berwanger, mentionedshe also has her mare on a joint supplement that has done wonders...Terri, I'd like to know what you use. There are a zillion joint supps out there, would be good to know what you use since it has helped your mare.

And, lastly...the tip aboput the apple cider vinegar is very interesting...that one I will try as soon as I get to the grocery store and buy some...

Thanks, this is a very educational forum and glad I joined.
Look foward to some replies to my post!!
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 316
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, February 16, 2006 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie,
Welcome !
Kim
 

Terri Berwanger
Yearling
Username: Terrib

Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 12:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joanie,
Welcome. I am using a product called Stride on my mare. I'm in Ireland so I don't know if it is available where you are. I know on another board Cosequin was recommened and even for pregnant mares.
As for the ACV, I bought some 3 weeks ago to start giving to everyone. My other broodmare tends to get achey and sore towards the end of her pregnancy, so I thought she might like a bit. It seems to have really made a difference to her. I also have the very arthritic mare on it too with the Stride.
A couple of months back I saw an add for new bute that breaks down in the intestines rather then the stomach making a better choice for horses. Since we usually get stuff years later then in the states, I was wondering if anyone has used this product? Just curious.
teb
 

Joanie Davison
Neonate
Username: Joanied

Post Number: 4
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Terri & Kim,
Thanks for the welcome

Terri...Ireland? I am half Irish!!!
Never heard of Stride, and I am sure if it was available here, we'd know it. Cosequin is an excellent product, but it's extremely expensive...I do use a joint sup on this mare, Vita-Flex 4000. It was recommended to me by an equine nutritionalist that has a lot of experience with all supplements. This mare has been healing an abcess on the bottom of her foot, so I don't know yet is the joint sup is helping...need to wait it out until the abcess is completely healed up.
But, I am for sure going to buy the ACV... and i think I'll ask the nutritionalist about it too...if she has anyhting interesting to say about it, I'll post.

Have a good one, ladies
PS..almost forgot...I seem to heave heard something about the 'new' bute and will try doing a search about it on one of the major equine sites for horse health...if I find any info, I'll be sure to post it here.



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