Hello everyone! I have been reading all the post and still unsure if my mare is pregnant or not? I have had the vet out numerous time to rectal palpate. He states she is not pregnant.I had bred her back in April and in June /05. On day 19 (of the first breeding) she did have one fetus there but the vet stated they were not viable, this was done with an ultrasound.And again on day 19 (second breeding) she had two fetus but both were not viable.My mare returned into season each and every month after this. Periodically I would have my vet palpate her to see. He would always say no she is not pregnant. It came time and 7 months from the first breeding she started to change in behavior and was filling out more. Again the vet came out and again no baby. Decided to use a blood test kit(FoalProof) that works on the estrone sulfate levels. Thought for sure this would tell me. The first kit was inconclusive and the second kit tested positive. In the meantime my mare has gained 40 pounds, grew 8 inches in belly and looks pregnant. She is starting to bag up, not fully in the udders but just before the udders. Again, vet still insists that she is not pregnant even with the estrone sulfate test. He says that she is in false pregnancy,rectal palpatation does not lie, he can pick up the uterus and feel everything. She is normally a very easy going girl, but now is grumpy if you touch her in the flank area. I have been doing alot of research on this and still I'm not sure either she is or not? It has come down to having to send her blood and urine off to the test kits company so they can do some research and testing. Any suggesttions from anyone as to if they have had this happen? Or help? I just do not want to go out in to the barn one morning and find a foal there or find my mare had compications and died.
Boy, this is a tough one. I imagine if you want to be absolutely sure, sending off the blood work is the way. We had a black mare which we bred one month along with her pasture mate and neither took, there was some excuse as to leaving the semen sit too long or something (we used to send our mares and stallions to a breeding barn for AI). Both appeared to come into season again so we rebred the next month. (Mares can appear to come into season all the while being very pregnant...funniest thing I ever saw was my fat, very obviously pregnant mare sashaying and peeing for our QH gelding..even though she delivered a full-term healthy foal just a few weeks later). Eleven months after the first insemination, the black mare delivered what appeared to be a full-term, large healthy filly which should have been a month premature. I've had two fillies born four weeks early and they DID have that preemie look, so I'm fairly certain this black mare was in foal at the time that the vet pronounced her not in foal...despite the palpation and ultrasound. My vet says that after the third month, it gets more difficult to tell if a mare is pregnant as it is harder to feel the uterus as it has descended...she states more you confirm the pregnancy by "bouncing" your hand off of the fetus, rather than actually "feeling" it. So therefore it can be easier to make false determinations after that time. Sad but true though, mares CAN have false pregnancies...another mare of mine went completely to "term" and showed all the signs of delivering, ie, pacing, looking at her belly, bagging up, even dripping milk, and there was no baby. I was so sure there was a baby I walked all my fencelines to see if something had rolled out. Upon palpation, vet said she was not pregnant nor had she ever BEEN pregnant. So yes, to be completely sure, I would have the blood test done. P.S. Now I'm not sure whether they can really tell from the ultrasound whether the fetus is viable or not, being there WAS a fetus there in both ultrasounds (even suspected twins) you might just still have a baby there. I would surely have that blood test because you don't want your mare delivering twins unbeknownst to you as many things can go wrong in that picture.
Having read more information, what I gather is that if the estrone sulfate level is high then you have a pregnant mare and if the mare loses the foal then the levels drop which indicates a false pregnancy. Also through palpation the vet can miss the fetus if it has dropped off the pelvis shelf. I have even tried a nonconvetional way of detection by using a Reike master ( they work off the horses energy levels) and they test positive for a pregnancy but do not find it in the uterus. My vet insists on not doing another ultrasound. There is not may good vets around too trust here. Tried to find one from out of the area that can do a transadominal and there is none. I have to wait till the new year to send off the blood samples. My mare would either be 8 months or 6 month along by now. Both times that she was bred was done live cover.
I sure wish you luck with this, sometimes, what seems like it should be a simple process can become very complicated and EXPENSIVE. We had a filly this year that we bred in late April, she is a maiden mare. After the first breeding, the vet pronounced her open (by sonogram)and we took her back at the appointed time to recheck for a follicle on her next cycle. At that visit, we had apparently "missed" the cycle so they decided to short cycle her as it was now later in the breeding season. She was given the shot and stood for the stallion 3 times during that heat. Again, we took her back for a sonogram at about 20 days, she was still not in foal. At that point we decided to hold off and breed early in '06. As fall approached, she was beginning to look suspiciously round so we had a different vet palpate her, low and behold, she is pregnant. Now comes the guess work, as large as she appears to be, I think she was pregnant on the first breeding and the vet just missed it on the sonogram. I know that the shot to short cycle her should have caused an abortion, but I've also read that's not always the case if she were at a certain stage in the pregnancy it may not have done so. I can tell you in relation to the other mares that were bred at the same time, she's size appropriate. IF she goes to her due date by the 2nd breeding, I feel very sorry for her, as she'll likely pop before she gives birth. I'll be watching her closely starting about mid February for changes in her udder and post when we do get a foal. Who would have thought something so natural as reproducing could become so complicated?
Thanks for the info Jos, I'll take a look and see just what the time frame was, given that she missed a cycle in between the first breeding and the shot, I think it would be safe to say that it was likely more than 35 days. Do you know if this situation could have resulted in a twin pregnancy?
If you mean could she have twins if there was a double ovulation on the cycle on which she was bred the first time, yes. If you mean could she have got pregnant on the first cycle breeding and then got pregnant with a twin on the next cycle breeding, no.
Caveat - I "never say never", but that would be one for the books!
Just to keep you posted, I had found another vet to do an ultrasound on her. My mare is not pregnant but he did find fluid in her uterus and what seems to have been something there. We gave her a shot of lutalyse to expel what is there. But she showed no signs of side effects from the shot. Her udders and belly size continued to grow. About a week after, I had thought she developed mastitis because her udders wer full adn it felt like a sponge. When you squeezed then your finger stayed indented on it. Started to treated her for mastitis and it was not helping instead her udders grew to three times the size. Stopped all med and tried a new course of action. The vet said that her hormones are all out of wack. But I still cannot figure out why her prepubic tendons are swelling up and she still looks and acts pregnant. Also why was her estrone sulfate levels up if there is no baby. These levels come from the placenta and are only there when they have a baby. Has anybody else had these problems?
Jos- Your second scenario is what I was wondering about.. I'll keep you posted on what happens with the filly. She's really miserable already but showing no signs of milk production so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that there's just one in there and we'll have a healthy foal come March. Considering the original vet said she was open both times, and then our family member vet found a foal on sonogram later on, I guess anything could happen. It's just hard to imagine she still has 60 days left and the biggest part of the foal growth yet to come given the size she is now. (poor baby, I feel VERY sorry for her)
Just wanted to update on the mare situation, the sorrel filly looks fine, no sign of a bag at all. However, her counterpart that was covered the same weekend showed definite changes in her udder which has me very concerned. I double checked the breeding dates last night and she won't be 320 days till March 7th. (if she bred on her first cover) This filly is very fat, and hasn't had a whole lot of exercise this winter, could what I'm seeing be fat deposits rather than actual udder developement? I felt her udder at the risk of being kicked and it was hard to the touch, much like a muscle would feel. Any input is appreciated.
I cannot help you Evie, but I know a case of a cow who had AI by a dairy bull in the stable, then three weeks later, she was in heat, in the pasture and took another bull, of a beef breed. She delivered two calves, at the term of the first breeding, one at term and the second three weeks premature, sadly they did not live, and as they were from different bulls, we were sure. So it is very rare, but possible !
Thanks for the information, it sounds like what I feared could have happened is very possible. (at least in cattle) the mare should be about 6 weeks out from a normal delivery by the first breeding, I'll post if anything happens before then just to let everyone know what is going on.
Evie, I had the same type of situation this year. Mare was bred live cover at the end of May, stood great for the stud, no problems, covered her twice. She did not return to heat at the time her next cycle should have been. She finally started showing signs of heat again approx. 30 days after the first breeding in May, so this was the end of June. She showed good signs of heat, but was very obstinate about being bred, but she still let the stud cover her. Well, she stayed in heat for 9 days and was covered 4 times. Had vet out to ultrasound at 16 days after this last breeding and vet said she was open and had a 35 follicle and should be in heat. We teased her, and no way was she going to let the stud breed her. So we pretty well figured okay, this mare isn't going to settle this year. At 45 days after the last breeding, I did the Pregnamare blood test and it came back positive for pregnancy. Right now she is very large for a mare that is only 6 months pregnant and I have felt very strong foal movement in her. So, we don't know if she got pregnant the first breeding in May, or if it was from the last breeding, which her last day of cover was actually the first part of July. And we wondered the same about the twin thing too. Whether or not they can get pregnant at two separate times, I'm glad to hear Jos say that isn't likely But I'm in the same boat, really not sure when this mare is due, it could be April or it could be June... for her sake, I hope it is before June.
Well, it is possible, but highly unlikely; in most cases, the first pregnancy continues, and no other fetus is conceived, but I was wondering if didn't happen more often than we think, when the animals, cattle or horses are at pasture together; after all when twins are born, it is considered normal that one is much smaller, as it is supposed to have a smaller placenta, and if the father is the same, there is no way to know, especially in cattle where the pregnancy is only visible by ultrasonography at 30 days, and it is not done often... Just a thought...
R- good point, I would only think it would be possible in the earliest stages of pregnancy and really only likely when there has been intervention. ( like us short cycling the mare so that we could breed her again quickly )
Sandy- Good luck with your mare, let's just hope we are having nice sized colts from the first cover, eh? After this breeding season, I'm ready to just do it the natural way and save myself a lot of money and worry.
Yeah, I am hoping for a nice sized foal from the first cover, but even if it is from the second cover, it's still going to be a big foal from the way she looks. This is my mare's first foal by this stud, and I can hardly wait to see what it is. She has had 2 previous foals by my previous stud, and they were nice foals, but no color. She is a TB and the previous foals were by a black/white App. She is bred to another App this year, but he's homozygous and has been throwing some REALLY loud colored foals. I'm just happy that she is in foal...and as long as it all works out fine in the end, that's all that matters I guess.
I'm a little less worried about the sorrel now, no signs of milk starting though I think her teats are a little enlongated for a maiden mare, her counterpart though, which was covered the same weekend, is building milk. This has me worried, if the 30 day rule applies in this case, she'll be less than 320 days when she foals. I wasn't looking for that foal before the 2nd week in March. We've had a strange winter here, very mild and warm, in past years, when it's been like this, the foals seem to come a little sooner, BUT NOT THIS SOON!! We did have one mare foal at 311 days last year and she is a 1/2 sister to the mare that's bagging up now, maybe it's a genetic thing they get from their dam?? (that they don't carry as long as most horses?) This foaling season is shaping up to be one that gives me a lot of gray hair and indigestion.
Evie, I have had mares start building milk as much as 46 days prior to foaling. Are these mares Arabians by any chance? I have heard that it is not uncommon for Arabs to foal much earlier than the 340 day mark and generally before 320 days. I'm not too stressed out over this foaling season YET.. but I'm sure I will be. I have one maiden mare who is in foal to my stallion who died during colic surgery on Labor Day...and she is the ONLY mare I had in foal to him. So I'm sure I will start to freak out when the time gets closer for her. She is "due" the middle of April.
These are all quarter horse mares, probably 1/2 of what we have in foal this year are maiden mares so that's always a little worriesome. It's good to know that you've had foals earlier than the 320 and also that it's sometimes a good bit longer than the "30 day" window once the changes start. (we had one last year at 311 days it it was fine) I checked again last night and we now have 5 that are starting to bag, there are 5 due in March so I'd say we are going to be early across the board on our foals this spring. Our winter has been incredibly mild and that sometimes seems to make them come a little sooner. In just the last few days the mares have seemed to balloon over night. I've very excited to see what these foals are as we used a new stallion this year who has produced some very nice foals in the past.
Also had to mention that we bought a new stallion last night so next year will be even more exciting. He's a golden palomino grandson of Peptoboonsmal and his sire has won a good bit of money in the NCHA. He's without a doubt the nicest, best bred horse we've ever owned. We don't even have our foals on the ground for this year and I'm already looking forward to next!!
E watkins- long post sorry above you make mention to the "30 day rule"...what is that? how oes it relate to birthing date? what do you consider "beginning to bag up" vs bagged up? 9i know what a full bag is, or bagged up, but is beginning to when they begin to hang and nipples get longer and the "bag" begins to thicken? or when it actually begins to fill and you can express?I feel stupid asking these things, but her last 2 foals i didnt pay too much attention to these details,when her bag was super full and she showed the signs i kknew she would have it, but didnt know her gestation time or anything, now it matters, because this foal took a long time and a lot of work to get..and because i do not have a heated barn with a fancy stall like when she had her first foals, and it is still so cold out(i boarded her before and time of year did not matter), and because she is in a larger pasture and with more horses thatn before (one gelding and one mare who are baby hogs that i am concerned may try to steal the foal if born out with them) i am trying to read all signs so that i get her put away in time to foal. Yesterday i put her in a paneled stall for her feedings like i always do, but instead of being outside by the pasture i moved her iside by herself, she would not eat, she neighed and kep bitig the panels, i am going to move her next to the window so she can see the others and see if that helps. I am just so nervous, i do not want a frozen foal sicle or a stolen baby, but her nervous in the barn isn t good either..right? I did not expect her to take on her first breeding (previous year bred her multiple times, ran out of time and still did not take), she did, and as a result...an earlier than i wanted foal...I do have a foal blanket, but if it is born outside in the snow the chance of survival would be low i assume. i will just keep trying her in hte barn and i will put someone inside with her for a week or so to get her comfortable, we will see if that helps. SUGGESTIONS.... ANYONE??? I have 2 months till day 340, however she is an arab, egyptian on top of it, so she may even go earlier...and she is beginning to hang and thicken (her bag) her tail has lost quite a bit if its strength (it lays to hte side all the time), baby centered up last week(instead of being lopsided) it is moving visibly and very strong movements (makes mom pin ears and squeal). and she is VERY large! how close are we getting? ugh!
Kris, I'm not an expert by any means, but I always start watching for any changes in the udder and about 30 days from that point you are likely to get a foal. Several of our mares are maidens (first foals) so it's VERY easy to see, in an older mare, if you are familiar with what she normally looks like, you should be able to tell when she starts looking puffy, or the teats start to enlongate. It's not a hard and fast rule (but there ARE there any when it comes to this stuff?) It's just a good guidline to go by so you aren't surprised and have a foal born in a dirty stall. I would be concerned too with your mare foaling outside with other horses around and if it's really cold your foal may survive but I've seen them have frostbite so badly that they loose the tips of their ears. If she were my horse, here's what I would do. I'd put her inside and if you are able to put another horse in the barn with her so that she's less upset, I would do that. She sounds like she's not too far off from foaling (probably 3 or 4 weeks at least ) so she'll have time to adjust before the foal arrives. If you put her in there at the last minute, and she's so upset about being seperated, she may step on the foal and not even realize it.
E. watkins- thanks, so if last week her udder began to thicken and get poofy in front her bag and nipples have defineately gotten bigger and elongated that fits into the 30 day rule? (approx 30 days till delivery?) OH BOY...I am not sure if I have told you, but i live in Minnesota, and if you know anything about us we are very cold yet...and actually we have had a record warm january, but the weather guys say february looks to be below normal, that concerns me a bit! (not that weather men are always right or anything, but it is something to consider) say if i apply the 30 day rule to this week, she would have it at around 311 days, that seems too early, however i have done some reading and i guess for an arab it is o.k, but the baby is half qh...( iknow, i know its the mare carrying it) anyway i thank you for the info, at this point i am looking for any advice i can get!!!!!!!!!!!!! so in your opinion does weather play a role in delivery? where did you say you were from, is your weather milder than normal?
Hi Kris, the 30 days isn't a hard and fast rule, it's more of an approximation as to when to expect your foal, more of an average timeline I'd guess. If my mare has hers based on that magic "30" number, there is no way it will survive, it would be much too early. As she was hand bred, there's no doubt about when she conceived so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she'll hold out longer than 30 days. (six weeks would be MUCH better) I will tell you that we have a few other mares that are starting to show the same signs and again, it's a little early for them to be doing this so we'll see, maybe it will just be an early year across the board.
I live in Kansas, in December we had -14 for about 3 days, since then, it's been incredibly mild weather. Today they are calling for 60!! I have a feeling in Feb we'll get hard with cold temps, just in time for the foals to start dropping. I will say in past years when we've had more mild winters like this, the foals tend to be a little earlier and when the winter is bitter cold, they seem to come later. I have no scientific facts to base why this happens, it just seems to be a trend that I've noticed over the years.
Kris, I wouldn't consider 311 days too early for an Egyptian Arab. I have read so many things that have said that mares can begin bagging "4-8 weeks prior to foaling". Well, to me that is a big window of time. 4 weeks can definitely make a difference. I have one mare who begins to bag (stretching, thickening of the udder) 45-47 days prior to foaling. I have found the average for my mares to be 36 days. Evie, I personally have never had a mare foal prior to 320 days... the earliest I've ever had one foal was 321 days, and the colt was perfect. I always seem to have the problem of my mares going well over the 340 days. I actually had 1 one year that foaled at 373 days. But mine generally seem to foal between 350 and 360 days. So I pretty much call 350 days their due dates.
Thank you E watkins and sandy! I am just so concerned with the weather. I am in the process of trying to locate some heat lamps to have on hand, i talked with the vet yesterday and he reccomends 50 degrees to foal in. wow, if we get a cold snap it will be hard to maintain 50 in the barn! but i have a blanket too, so hopefully we will be ok. All i know is i am documenting this stuff for future breedings, i made the mistake of not doing so for her first 2, ..now i wished i had! vet says hes seeing 30 day early deliveries this year, so sounds like its the weather, poor horses bodies are confused! My 9 month old is shedding like you cannot believe! and she is nearly white, so its not like she is hot from attracting the sun...(black or dark color). who knows...time will tell! thanks again for your knowledge and comfort!
There is nothing worse than worrying about what the weather is going to be like when your mares foal! I live in Utah, and we have such unpredictable winters here. I usually do my breeding to try to make it so the mares foal in April or May, but even then sometimes there is no guarantee it is going to be good foaling weather. One of my mares foaled on March 30th in 05 and the weather had been absolutely gorgeous for weeks. Well of course the day she decides to foal, there is a blizzard. Luckily she did foal in the middle of the day so I was able to do everything I could to warm the foal up as soon as possible. I put a heat lamp in her stall and the little fella did just fine. I should also mention that this was a mini, so the foal only weighed approx 30 pounds or so. Even the smallest blanket I owned did not fit him. My earliest one due this year is about April 11th. Hopefully the weather will be kind, but I doubt it. We just got a foot of snow last night! But the saying in Utah is "If you don't like the weather in Utah, wait 15 minutes and it will change." Kris, I always keep a journal on my mares during their pregnancies. It helps so much. That way from pregnancy to pregnancy, you have something to compare it to.
sandy, thank you. we have the same saying here in minnesota, the weather changes so quickly, and to the extremes!, no subtle changes! I began to breed my mare end of april in hopes for a foal no earlier than end of march, which is very early for minnesota, especially because i do not have a fancy heated barn! I started so early because the previous year we tried end of may adn she did not stick, we rebred until it was too late, she did not stick, so we started early so we could try 2 cycles and if she did not stick we could use regimate, but we did not need to! which is good, but as a result I now have to worry about the weather! I am now keeping journal on her , photos too! for future use! the vet said he is seeing mares already this year going 30 days sarly , so we will, see, i am hoping that she is just preparing early!!! again thank you!
Hi Kris, Im in Australia but all my mares foaled early this year. The earliest was 3 weeks and the foal was small but very healthy and full of life. She is now a big 6 month olds. The weather is playing funny buggers with all the mares physical alarm clocks i think
thanks emma, i will defineately keep you all posted as the progression continues! She is as big as a house and lazy! her udder is thickened but not filling, her hind end is getting softer,she has no tail strength, when you touch her rump her tail lifts or lays to the side. I began introducing her to the inside barn (closed not an open lean to that she is used to) the end of last week. She is NOT happy at all! I have tried several horse with her she wont eat and just spins and yells, but yesterday i found the babysitter, the only gelding in the pasture. she is most content with him, and he does not mind being in with her. I keep her in for a couple hours during the day increasing each day, after this week depending on how well she is doing i may begin keeping them in at night and then try to wean her from the gelding. I hope all goes well. I just bought blessed are hte broodmares and the complete book of foaling, now i thin i am more nervous than before!!!! funny animals, why cant they be more like a human and go a little closer to their due date dispite weather and other outside factors!!!????
Kris & Sandy - it sounds like the early foals are being seen pretty frequently this year, I can't say I'm surprised but I am relieved to hear it's not just happening in OUR barn. It's funny what you and Sandy said about the weather changing in UT and MN because here in KS, they say the same thing..lol. We can go from sunny and 70 to tornados and hail in a very short order and snow one day and two days later it'll be 60. Crazy.
My mares are still hanging in there, I believe there are 6 now showing signs of being in the final stretch. My grulla mare has taken the lead (udder wise) and she actually should be the 2nd one due based on her breeding dates. I would guess I have 3, maybe 4 weeks tops till they start hitting the ground. We have so many first timers that it's bound to be a stressful March and April, I'm guessing I'll be hollow eyed from lack of sleep before it's over. All of them will be born inside and though we'll have a heat lamp, the barn isn't insulated so if it's 30 outside, it'll be chilly for the foals when they arrive, we'll just have to be there to dry them off and welcome them.
If I can figure out how to put photos on, I'll do so when the babies get here. I'm expecting some nice ones although if they are very early, they'll probably be very small.
That's interesting about early foaling this year. I hope my one mare, the TB who wasn't supposed to be pregnant according to the vet, goes early. The other mare is a maiden, so anything pretty much goes with her. She is almost 9 months and really isn't showing much, but she is a maiden and I know they don't show a lot with their first foals. You can definitely tell that she's pregnant, but she isn't nearly as big as the TB who is a month and a half behind her. (If she settled on the second breeding, not the first, if she settled on first breeding, she is only a week behind the maiden.) Evie, Put photos on photobucket and post the link on here. That seems to be the way everyone does it and it's pretty easy to do.
I'll have to figure out how to do that, I have a photo of two of my mares, both are due in March, I think they look pretty good sized for not being due for 6 more weeks. I know one thing, I'm glad it's not ME carrying a baby that size..yikes. I didn't get down to check them last night, we went to an auction and bought 3 more horses, just what we needed.
E watkins- it is real easy to post on photobucket, if i can figure it out anyone can! i agree with you, i am glad it is not ME too...poor girl is miserable, waddles, staggers,moves very slow...except when i put her in the barn than she is full of life and noise and paces quite quickly and quite agile! isnt purchasing horses a sickness? i know i have caught it! I am purchasing one of 2 coming 2 yr oldss with very little handling and people experience, just as a project horse! I have always broke horses i have owned from real little and they have been easy to break and ride, i think this one will be my challenge, will be fun though, they are sweet just scared. price is good!!! one is a painted quarab, the other is a solid bay paint/qh. I like the qh/paint better but she just had an injury that i am unsure how it will heal so i am waiting until after my mare foals before i decide which one and then sill decide and bring home the new one while she is seperated so she wont chase. sorry about the rambling... what did you just buy?
Evie, I looked at the pic of your mare.. I don't think she looks terribly huge. But she is quite a bit bigger than my maiden who is due the middle of April. But to be honest with you, my TB that's not supposed to be due until June is WAY bigger than your mare!!! I'm going to see if I can get some pics of her and put them on photobucket, then you guys can tell me if she only looks 7 months pregnant to you.
E.- it opened. she is pretty...and big! My mare has not grown this past week too much thankfully. I will probably post new pics tomarrow. I really hope she will wait until the end of march! I do not want a preemie! anyway she is a very pretty horse, she is very stocky and muscular! How tall is she? how old?
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 09:55 am:
Sandy- I don't think the photo does her justice really.. she's a heavy, musclular mare and she sticks out pretty far on both sides. This is her first foal, though we have a little sorrel that looks much wider, I think it just appears that way because she is a much smaller mare than my black.
Kris- Thanks, she's a sweetheart, and she's just 3, but she is a good sized, stout filly. She's not too tall yet, but I exepect she'll make 15 hands by the time she's done growing. (currently she's higher in the hip than at the withers)
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 11:15 am:
Thanks for sharing the photos, I'm pretty sure my gals are larger than those belly wise, but then, it could be largely fluid too. The stallion we bred to does tend to produce some pretty large foals though, so we'll see. I can't wait till they actually are here! We bought a new stallion last week so I'm really hoping for fillies out of this crop to cross back on the new stud in a couple of years.
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 11:20 am:
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e23/Watehen/Sage.jpg this is my other mare, she was bred two days before the black one. (all our other mares are actually "ranch" horses, these two are a couple of my personal horses. This is Sage's second colt, again I think she looks a lot larger in person than the photo really shows.
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 11:41 am:
umm, I hate to differ from what your opinion is but this mare is much larger then both of the mares you posted, she has had one previous foal before therefore her ribs are already sprung, but as this closer view shows, she is very large. [IMG]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cmpsp1/f20586f8.jpg[/IMG]
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 11:51 am:
ok guys I think I have you both beat...here is my mare pics taken this am (after a fresh snow) she is like 280 days(give or take) has had udder thickening for 2 1/2 weeks now and belly is really changing now, i think it dropped over night actually, she did not seem this low and pointed yesterday! front [IMG]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_5365.jpg[/IMG] she doesnt appear as wide anymore either! side view [IMG]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_5360.jpg[/IMG] she is getting picky with her eating, sheis sigting through and not eating her bran mash, only hte grain,(stinker!) what do you think? (she has had 2 previous foals, last one 10 years ago)
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:01 pm:
LOL, are we having a "belly" competition? I think that sorrel mare is pretty good size too. But in the photo, her shoulders don't look too wide and if they have a broad chest, it can make the tummy look a little smaller. Let's just hope we all have nice, healthy foals and easy deliveries.
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:23 pm:
you are right, it is not a competition, and i agree guys lets all just hope for healthy happy mares and foals when this is said and done! Yes she is a bit narrower across the chest than your mares! (afterall she is an arab) I find it fun to see everyine elses mommys to be. It is nice to have the comparison! and fun to discuss issues and concerns with others! check out my photo bucket album if youd like and see the difference from 1-23 to today. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_5365.jpg
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 12:51 pm:
Arabs are so tiny compared to some of the quarters now days, one of my favorite crosses though is the quarter/arab. I think I've gotten fat enough in my old age I feel guilty if I don't have a pretty stout horse underneath me. A friend of ours has a filly about the same color as yours and she's just a really beautiful horse.. and FAST.
My photos are a couple of weeks old, maybe I see such a difference in person because of that.
Posted on Wednesday, February 01, 2006 - 01:41 pm:
I have one arab (the pregnant ones daughter) who is fine built about 850 pounds and only 14.2hands, however this mare is a good 15 and does about 1000 when not bred. Many people confuse her with a quarter arab cross, but she is registered purebred! Just has good genes! I have too gotten too heavy in my old age that ifeel too heavy for my smaller arab, however tsaharah is big enough that i still jump on her for a ride occasionally! (she is a bit arthritic so i try to avoid riding her but she is the smoothest horse i own! and best behaved) I too have graduated to the stouter built quarterhorse, and my soon to be quarter arab cross baby! besides the 2 arabs i have a qh gelding (14.1h and 1100lbs, THICK!!!) and i have a 15h qh mare (tb/qh built however) and a beauty qh buttermilk dun coming yearling filly. and after tsaharah foals either a qh/paint 2 yr old or a qh/arab 2 yr old. I would someday love to own a STOUT 15-15.2 qh ! I always keep my eyes open!!! because buying horses a contagious disease and i have caught it! fast...yeah mine have plenty of speed, they both can easily outrun the qh i own, its kind of funny ...small but powerful!
You would like my little black mare then, she's just 3 now, but as wide as a mack truck. I think she'll mature around 15 hands or maybe a little more. We try to raise the smaller horses as my husband gives riding lessons and we sell a lot of our lesson horses to our young students.(for them, smaller is better)
where did you say you lived? just kidding, too far to transport! I am looking for a good stout qh, preferrably gelding, well broke for the kids to ride. (7 and 12) I just keep looking and when one shows up i buy it...that is how i have gotten what i have now, however i need to sell a couple of these for various reasons, and get an all purpose horse. yah the photo of your mare looks to be exact build i like!
we live in NE Kansas, my husband does riding lessons and horse training full time and most of our students are kids or ladies. at the moment, we don't have any geldings that would suit your needs, last year was a stellar one for us..lol. We have 9 horses in training now and by this time next year, they'll be ready to go. I doubt however that you live too far away, we've sent them as far as Hawaii and have one we sold in December that may be going to ALASKA this summer!
wow! alaska?!?!?! I guess I should rephrase...too far for me to pay shipping...Finances arent THAT good! Ideally i would like a gelding for an even temper, howver i have an even tempered mare right now. Anyway I like to team pen (just geting started for fun), my daughter would like to dabble in games, and y son just wants to ride, but he has not done much so he need a very tolerant horse.(the pregnant one was his to ride, but not since snow fell, and it will be a few months before we get her out again...(have to teach lil one to pony first!)) anyway...how are your mares doing that are due in march(end). mine is making small changes yet. her nipples are not flat anymore they are getting rounder adn thicker, her bellys pointed but yet changes shape by the hour, and she is getting picky with her food...not too sure what to do about that...
The mares are doing ok, the black one has slowed down on the udder process which relieves me, I was worried she'd foal before that baby was done cooking. She is getting soft in the hip now though and starting to soften and lengthen in the back, it won't be too long, probably two, maybe three weeks if I'm lucky. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for three weeks, if they go before then, I'll be very concerned as to their viability. The grulla mare looks huge and she's at the head of the pack as far as udder size goes, she's also backed off her eating, and is pushing her behind against the wall and rolling. All signs that she's getting ready too. I'm just hoping for some healthy fillies and safe deliveries, and I don't think I'll have to wait too much longer to get them!
EVIE-WHEN IS THE GRULLA AND BLACK "DUE" (EARLY/LATE MARCH?)? YOU'RE LOOKING FOR FILLIES, I AM LOOKING FOR A COLT...IF MINE GOES BEFORE END OF FEB/FIRST (AS THAT WILL BE A MONTH BEFORE THE 340) I GUESS END OF FEB. IS ONLY ABOUT 31/2 WEEKS AWAY!(WHOA...SCARY!) I AM STILL HAVING NO LUCK WITH HER BEING CONTENT IN A STALL IN THE BARN ALSO, I MAY JUST HAVE TO PADDOCK OFF A SMALL AREA AND HALF HER LEAN TO THAT SHE IS USED TO FOR A FOALING PEN. I REALLY HATE TO AS IT WOULD BE WARMER INSIDE, BUT IF SHE IS NERVOUS SHE WONT FOAL THERE ANYWAY...(CORRECT?) I FEED HER HER MEALS INSIDE AND LEAVE HER FOR 2 HOURS, SHE WONT EAT UNLESS I AM IN THERE, THEN I LET HER OUT WITH HER FOOD IN A PEN OUTSIDE SHE FINISHES (NOT THE STUFF SHE DOESNT LIKE THOUGH) AND THEN WE REPEAT FOR THE SECOND FEEDING...IT IS A REAL PAIN...3 1/2 WEEKS ISNT MUCH TIME, I AM HOPING WHEN THE TIME COMES SHE WILL BE CONTENT INSIDE, BUT I WILLHAVE AN ALTERNALTIVE SET UP JUST IN CASE...AND THE BABY BLANKET AND A FLEECE SWEATSHIRT CLEAN AND READY FOR THE BABY... GOOD LORD WILLING THE WEATHER WILL BE NICE WHEN SHE DECIDES TO FAOL...AS IT IS NOT NOW!!! WINTER HAS MADE ITS RETURN! IT IS CURRENTLY 20 AND FALLING TEMPS WITH A NASTY WIND...YUCK!!! HIGHS IN HIGH TEENS TO LOW 20'S THIS WEEKEND AND EARLY NEXT WEEK.(CENTRAL MINNESOTA) WELL KEEP ME (US) INFORMED AS TO THE PROGRESS OF YUR MARES!! KRIS
Kris- my mares won't be 320 days till about the 5th of March, I highly doubt they'll hold off that long. They are always stalled though and Jos said that being under the lights like they are all day long could shorten the gestation by as much as two weeks. I'm hoping he's correct and that they'll hold off till the end of the month to drop those babies, that would put me close enough to their due dates to feel like the foals had a good chance at surviving.
I'm going out on a limb here and giving you some advice as to your mare. (I'll probably get corrected, but this is what "I" would do in your situation.) If the mare is not due till late March, I would go ahead and put her in the barn and leave her there. She'll have a fit and be very upset for a few days, but she has plenty of time to become accustomed to the change before she foals. By bringing her and in and taking her back out every day, you are pretty much telling her that if she throws a big enough fit, you'll put her back out, hence you aren't making any progress towards making her content with being there. It's much colder here today too, wind chill in the 30's now, a big change from the balmy 62 we had yesterday. I think February is going to be pretty miserable and maybe we'll have some really good storms to make up for how nice it's been the past two months. (also maybe the sudden cold snap will shut those mares of mine down a little and buy my babies a little more cooking time!) I'll keep you posted on the progress as it unfolds. I don't think I mentioned earlier that the black mare's colt seems to have rotated into position, she's no longer as wide as a mack truck, just one more thing that makes me think we don't have too much longer to wait! Ev
Evie-all advice appreciated...ok, a few questions for you...I have been putting her in after her am meal (that way she gets at least one good meal in) and leaving her in all day till evening (I put the obese gelding in with her to keep her company, also it keeps him from the hay all day). The last couple days she has been in for 5-8 hours, she is no longer spinning circles inside, but she is dumping her evenig grain out(not eating it), she flips over her water, and pulls her hay out and spreads it everywhere and doesnt eat it either...will leaving her inside without water (because i cannot b out there to keep filling it) and her not eating hurt her? (or baby?) how long should i leave her in? I only let her out to eat hay for the evening and join the heard for the night. my plan was to increase her time until i had her in 12 hours in hte day, and then reverse it to in at night. how long so you suggest i put her in for? (24 hours, jsut at night? now till foaling?) I would rather not lock her up 24 hours a day yet because she is a bit on hte heavy side and if she is out with the other horse she at least moves around with them (or oppsite them, when they eat she goes and stand off somewhere wlse, when they leave the hay she goes to eat, but they often make a couple hour trek into the woods and open land on the back 20 acres for a few hours each evening...im thinking excercise is good for her. WARNING>>>WINTER IS BACK...ITS ON ITS WAY TO YOU TOO!!!! It is currently 7!!!! 7 degrees!!!! and predicted to be 10-15 below zero at night by saturday!!! UGH!!! but like you had said maybe this will force those mares to cook their babies a bit longer! well like i said...any advice appreciated on what to do with this brat! kris
Kris- When her colt arrives, do you plan to keep her inside? or turn her back out with the other horses? You mentioned a gelding, has he been around foals before? I've heard of geldings attacking and killing foals so that's something you need to consider if you don't know what his behavior is around little ones. If you want to keep her in at night eventually, that's what I'd do now. Go ahead and let her be outside during the day then bring her in at night, getting her used to the routine is the big thing, chances are, she'll foal at night, most of them do. If she has access to food and water all day, I wouldn't fret too much about stalling her over night if she doesn't eat or spills her water. Hang her bucket away from where she tends to pace and fret (opposite corner) and just put a little hay in there, if she gets hungry, she'll eat. I'd mostly be worried with getting her willing to accept the isolation from the herd, you don't want her fretting when she's foaling or she make be so nervous she gets up too quickly and causes the cord to break prematurely. Honestly, if it were my horse, from the situation you described, I'd stall her most of the time, let her out a little during the day for exercise but that's it. She really needs to get settled down before she delivers and the only way she'll do that is by being there long enough to accept that the stall is where she's going to be. (again, this is just my opinion..I'm not an expert, I'm just basing what I tell you on what I've experienced over years)
It is COLD here now..15 with the wind chill factored in.. winter is back
Thanks again! WARNING LONG POST! the gelding and her are in setperate "stalls" inside, but in the pasture they are all together. I am not concerned with the gelding hurting the foal i am concerned with him stealing it more, him and another qh mare i own who is 8, and is barren this year for the first time in 5 years! (she actually is producing milk right now even though she isnt bred and weaned her foal last July (my beautiful buttermilk dun-"precious") anyway. anyway i brougt home hte new mare foal last year when thefoal was 5 days old, he makes a good daddy adn babysitter, very gentle to babies, the other mare, after weaning her baby for 6 weeks (she left for 6 weeks) when she came back she ran the herd until she regained control or her baby, did not let her nurse, but had to have the control! I plan to keep her seperate for awhile, until the ice is melted around here (usually mid to late april)so when she runs to threaten the others around her baby, nobody falls and gets hurt. I have another option I can do , it is to close off her lean to whick is 13 x 24 and put up a tarp to close off about 16 feet of hte front and leave a doorway so she can see out, and use round pen panels with plywood to make a gate on the open side and the rest of the panels to create a "passock" within her already known pasture. I know i could lock her in there and she would not have a care in the world she would stay in there all day and night with not a concern! it just may be a bit warmer in the pole shed...what do you think? ANOTHER QUESTION FOR YOU...THE LAST COUPLE DAY SHE HAS NOT EATEN MUCH HAY..THEY HAVE A ROUND BALE OF ORCHARD TIMOTHY BROAM ALFALFA(LITTLE BIT) AND CLOVER, SHE ONLY EATS FOR A FEW MINUTES A COUPLE TIMES A DAY, IS THAT NORMAL TO DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF HAY THEY EAT? HER UDDER IS SLOWLY GETTING THICKER, NOT SAGGY HANGING GETTING BIGGER LIKE 2 WEEKS AGO, BUT GETTING THICKER BIGGER (I CANNOT GET ANYTHING OUT BUT IT APPEARS TO BE FILLING SLOWLY) SHE WILL ALSO STAND AND THEN JUST BACK UP, PRESS HER BUTT ONHTE WALL FENCE MOMENTARILY AND THEN STEP UP AGAIN...ALSO NORMAL? I HOPE THIS DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS GETTING CLOSER...SHE NEEDS TO WAIT A MONTHS STILL! SHE IS ONLY 285 DAYS FROM HER LAST BREEDING DATE. (NEW QUESTION, SHE WAS HAND BRED, SHE BRED APRIL 14 TWITCHED-NOT TOTALLY WILLING THEN EVERY OTHER DAY UNTIL APRIL 28, HER LAST DAY, WE HAD TO TWITCH HER THAT DAY TOO BECAUSE SHE WAS NOT TOTALLY WILLING...SO SHE HAS A 2 WEEK BREEDING WINDOW...HARD TO GET A "340 DUE DATE" FROM THT ISNT IT...BECAUSE GESTATION IS "340 FROM CONCEPTION...") thanks again for all the info from someone who breeds often and has an opinion and willing to share it!!!
Hey again, gosh, where to start answering that last post..lol. First I'll tell you that your mare was bred around the same time period as my mares which were covered on the 24th and 26th of April, they are having similar symptoms (the butt pushing is to relieve pressure from the foal, perfectly normal but it's hard on the tail if they keep it up for long, I ended up wrapping my mares tail last year to preserve it) I don't mess with their udders, I've seen a few cases of "owner induced" mastitis and having felt that first hand when I nursed my son, I would not take a chance on causing my mare to suffer through it simply to predict when the foal is coming. If you watch her pretty closely, you'll probably know without ever touching her udder when the foal is close. MOST of the time, when the milk goes down into the teats, you'll know you aren't far off (as in days) Waxing is another clue, again MOST of the time, when they wax, we'll have a foal within 12 hours. Again, don't confuse the white residue on their udder as waxing, true waxing is when it comes from the actual opening of the nipple and usually it's rather honey colored. As far as where to put her to foal, I'm still an advocate of a nice safe stall. If you can make a paddock outdoors that a colt won't get entangled in, or possibly slip through or under, you might be safe, but they sure seem to get themselves into trouble without even trying sometimes. It sounds like you have about the same time frame to wait on your foal as I do, I'm guessing another 2 to 3 weeks on ours, tops. Whatever decision you make about her foaling place, I'd settle on the spot soon and let her have the next couple of weeks to adapt. Good luck!! I'll put photos of the babies on here when they arrive. (and am I ever getting excited about my babies this year, my grulla mare is just getting enormous, I hope she delivers without trouble, I feel guilty just looking at her.. also keeping my fingers crossed that I'll get a filly, then I won't breed her again)
Just call me paranoid! Tsaharah is my baby girl, I have had her 16 years!!!(she will be 17 end of march) I am just nervous! I trust it will all be ok, I am just trying to do what is best...hmm for both of us! I defineately do not want her foaling in the pasture..as far as any more...ill just give the barn a whirl and if she doesnt adjust before foaling. well theres always her lean to...how is that decision? Thanks! I will try not to bother you anymore about this...well...okay not too soon anyway...(LOL)...but when things begin to progress you can bet ill be here!!!!! And when a foali s born...pics here!!!thank you again!
Kris- no problem, we have about 30 boarders at our place, I'm USED to answering questions..lol. I hope you get things situated so that both you and your mare are happy. I wouldn't worry too much about her age, I bet she'll do just fine, we had a mare that foaled at 22!! After that, a family adopted her and she now lives in Seattle WA! She'd have to be about 26 now I guess and still going strong! I check this site daily so if you have more questions, I'll do my best to give you some answers. I can't guarantee that I'm always right, but I'll give you what input I can! Ev
The first few post from here are what I am talking about. I brought this back up to the top so you will not have far to go and read it or look for it. Especially after our little invader!
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