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3 months pregnant with acute Laminitis and possible Cushing's

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » General Mare Questions - Volume 1 » 3 months pregnant with acute Laminitis and possible Cushing's « Previous Next »


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ruth d. (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 24.64.223.204
Posted on Sunday, December 18, 2005 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 21 year old maiden Welsh/Arab mare that I have had since birth. I bred her to an Arab stallion this past summer. After a session on Regumate, she conceived (confirmed pregnant by ultra sound at 21 days) and is now on day 103. Everything was fine until she came up lame a week ago. Our vet diagnosed acute Lamitis and suspected Cushing's Disease!!? She is on Bute & Pergolide. I have the Farrier coming in a few days and have an appointment with a Naturopathic as well. Has anybody been in a similar situation with Cushing's and pregancy? "Fifi" has always been healthy, has never been lame before and has always received the very best of care. I am interested in any similar experiences, suggestions and advice. }}
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 11:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess nobody had any suggestions or experiences for me? Nobody answered my post :-( but I will give an update anyway . . .

Now I don't think my horse actually has cushing's. The more I learn about it the more I see she does not fit the profile, and if she had it she would likely not have gotten pregnant! My vet came to that diagnosis just because she seemed to be drinking more water, is over 20 and has now gotten laminitis. I did agree with the vet to still keep her on the Pergolide, just in case and will do the cushing's test after the baby is born,to know for sure. What is more serious right now is the laminitis.

I saw a Naturopathic vet and I am weaning her off the bute.(It was not helping) I have her on Traumeel (anti-inflammitory and analgesic without gastrointestinal toxicity) as well as Nux Vomica, and Milk Thistle. I saw an improvement right away. And of course I am doing a diet change, I was feeding her too much and too rich a hay. She is on a local hay now along with Timothy Balance Cubes designed for cushing's horses. She also gets Recovery EQ as a supplement. I found a great site on Laminitis by Dr. Joyce Harman, DVM. Part of why I have stopped the bute is from what she says about it. Very interesting . . .
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 67
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 08:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ruth!

I have a mare that has laminitis too. Except she did not have cushings... She has gotten really bad in the past month or two, but am hopeing after the baby is born it will be better...

can you privately e-mail me all the things you said you used and where you got them. I would love to try it also...Is it expensive? My private e-mail is outlaw5@pbtcomm.net


please e-mail me

Thanks and MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!
 

Gynna Meiller
Weanling
Username: Jw_kings_excalibur

Post Number: 41
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2005 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is a way to put wooden shoes on your mare( runs about $150 form what I have seen and helps tremendously form what i have read. Talk to your vet adn your farrier. Many prego mares( mine included) seem to increase their water intake. dont overfeed her and dont increase feed until the last few weeks if she is foundering. Make sure she has plenty of minerals and salt and free choice good clean hay that is low in protien for HER. I add about 3 ounces of apple cider vinager in my horses feed and my mares love it! vet said it will help with their water intake and helps thier digestive track and many other things.
Do you know if her cofin bone has rotated? if not then you may be okay. Do you know what may have coused it? I hope all is well and keep us updated on her progress. I would ask the vet to make sure she does not have an uterine infection...
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 06:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for your replies Beverly and Gynna. I have emailed you Beverly with the remedies I am now using and finding so helpful.

I will ask my vet and farrier Gynna about the wooden shoes . . . I have tried the styroform pads taped to her front feet but they didn't work.

Your message was the first time I was aware of pregnant mares drinking more water, thanks for that info. I do provide free choice salt, minerals and now use a good local hay low in protien. I might try the apple cider vinegar in awhile, I will just give her some time to accustom to all the new things she is getting. I do know apple cider is good though.

I personally believe that what caused her laminitis was that I was feeding her to a hay that was too rich for her(a 1st cut timothy/
orchard grass mix). We did x-rays and she did NOT have any rotation of the coffin bone. I will ask about the uterine infection possibility, GOOD THOUGHT because she did have one after the first time we bred her. We had to clear it up before breeding her again the following cycle when she conceived.

Thank you again for your replies. I really appreciate it. Helps to not feel so alone going through this disease with my mare. Ruth
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 68
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Ruth...

My mare foundered a couple of years before we got her when she was pregnant. she foundered on grass. We call her HOGATHA! LOL She east like she is starved all the time. When we got her she was small, but looked unhealthy to me. They said they had to keep her weight down so her feet wouldn't hurt. Well over three years we let her gain weight and she looks really good to me, but she has put a little more on than what she needed to with this pregnancy. she is in the last trimester...

She has rotated the coffin bone. We had x-rays done and vet said with a good farrier we could keep her comfortable.

I am hoping as soon as she has this baby, she will loose the "extra' weight she has put on and her feet will be better... Thanks for all the imput....
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, December 26, 2005 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Beverly:
"Holgatha" too cute :-) I wish you all the best with her. Let me know when she foals (I am jealous you only have 3 more months to wait, I have 8). Do you know whether she is having a colt or a filly? I heard an "old cowboy tale" that if the mares belly swings out to the left at a trot, it's a filly and if to the right a colt. The lady who relayed that to me, breeds quarterhorses and said since she heard this a year ago, it has proved true on her farm and she had bred several mares. I hope its true because my mare Fifi's belly swings to the left and I want a filly :-) A palomino one like her.

You're welcome for the information, I hope you can try it and it helps. I found the results amazing . . .
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 69
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ruth,

We just had a baby a few weeks ago and i need another fix!! He was born on the 8th. Now the one that I am waiting on is my mare. I have wanted a baby from her ever since we got her, but I didn't want to start too soon with her. She has had some really gorgeous babies so I am hopeing. I am really hopeing for a black and white filly, but will take any color as long as it is healthy! LOL. I go by the old nail test. ( If you tie a string to a nail and hold it above the mares back about where the uterus would be and if it swings in a straight back and forth line then it is a colt, if it swings in a circle, then a filly. It has been correct 75% of the time. i want this one to be a filly.. The others have been colts, it is time for a filly!!! filly fairy, filly fairy, filly fairy. LOL

Good luck on the LONG wait! but one good thing if you join a group called foalwatch...you will get to see lots of babies and learn lots of information! If you want I will post the link for you to join.. Let me know!!

talk to you later!
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI Beverly:

I had heard about the nail test, I will try it but I will probably subconciously make it go in circles . . .

I would like to join foalwatch, so send me the link if you can. Is your 2 week old colt's photo posted there? What did you call him?

Fifi has been doing well the last few days. Tomorrow I am expecting the vet again, I hope he agrees that she has improved considerably. His last visit was 11 days ago. Does Holgatha move around much? or is she also confined to her stall like Fifi is? Fifi still lies down but I have noticed she is up much more and happier.

r.
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 70
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi Ruth,
Here is a link to the picture of the baby that was born on the 8th.. we nicknamed him Roo because for the first two or three days he jumped around like a kangaroo. LOL.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/530454098VDYGVp

Here is the link to join the foalwatch group.. it is very informative and you learn lots and get to see lots of pictures of babies and other horses...

Glad Fifi has been doing better. So the natural remedy medicine is working? I hope so. I plan on trying to get some myself.

Natalie aka Hogatha (lol) moves around some not a whole lot. She walks from the automatic waterer to the hay stack to the barn then a feeding time to the front pasture.. she limps, but not tooo bad. it is mostly one foot that hurts most.... She has the choice to go out or stay in the barn. We don't usually make them stay in. they love being outside. so we just leave it open and if they want to go in they can...

Glad Fifi is doing much better...
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 12:23 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HI Beverly:

Roo is too cute . . . all your horses look nice, sure a colourful bunch!! You're lucky to have such a nice "collection" :-) I love the photos of them all together in the field.

My vet was impressed with Fifi's progress today. He came this morning and took her heart rate and foot pulses. He said she is healing quicker than most do, which I attribute to the rememdies. I can't tell you how relieved I am. Made my day.

He tried to feel the baby rectally but couldn't reach her uterus, which I guess is a good sign? If it was empty he would have found it? I think, because doesn't it drop below the pelvis at around 3 months?

Natalie/Holgatha's laminitis doesn't sound as bad bad as Fifi's if she can move around that much. Fifi has only started coming out of her stall and into her run recently. Since December 11 she was pretty well in her stall and lying down alot.

My vet said his own horse had had laminitis once and it took 4 MONTHS to heal. YIKES He also told me Laminitis is more serious than some people realize, that 50% of the horses afflicted actually die! NASTY

Thanks for the one link, but I don't think the foal watch link came through? Try again?
r.
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 71
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 07:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi !

Sorry the link didn't come through, let me try again...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/foalwatch/?yguid=203867689

hope it works this time. LOL

Thansk for the compliments. We mainly just have pleasure horses. we don't show. I used to run barrells about 8 yrs ago. just haven't done much since then. used to travel around a good bit, but now we just love on them.

So glad Fifi's progressing well.

Yes after the 3rd month the baby falls over the pelvic rim and is harder to feel when palpated. . Yes he probably would have felt it if she had lost it.

Natalie has been doing real well, but we got a couple of BAD farrier's. It is so hard to find someone who knows enough about a foundered horse to show them correctly.

The bad thing about founder, once they have foundered they never heal completely and it gets worse each time they founder.

Once Natalie has this baby and starts nursing we hope she will loose 200 or 300 lbs. she is almost 1150 pounds. Big Girl!

Anyway would love to see you on foalwatch! Good Luck! Keep me posted about Fifi..
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 01, 2006 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Beverly, the link came through this time. I will join that group, it sounds like fun.

I am fortunate here, we have a great farrier. He is British and was trained in Britain (5 years of university). He knows everthing about horses feet. He will be seeing Fifi again on Jan 12. I will let you know what he does. When he was out to see her Dec 21 she was too sore for him to do anything. I think he will be cutting down her toe area, to create a "roll over" so it's less painful for her to walk. But I will let you know after he comes what exactly he did. I am hoping she does not need shoes, just because of the expense. She has never needed shoes before, she has the typical hard arabian hooves. I know the hooves are supposed to get worse with each episode of laminitis, but with proper care and knowing your horses limits, you can still enjoy your horse for pleasure riding (all I do anyway). And they are learning a lot about laminitis, so much they can do now.

Fifi had a bad day yesterday, but is better again today. I had reduced the Traumeel tabs to 2x per day, maybe I had made the change too early, so I have her back on 3x per day and saw a diference right away. It is just with not living on the property where she is, it was getting to be a lot of back and forth driving giving her the meds at different intervals. Maybe just a few more days will do it.

Hope you had a happy new year. r.
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 72
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Monday, January 02, 2006 - 12:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi Ruth! HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Hope you had a great one too.. Sorry to hear Fifi had a bad day...

Hopefully she wil feel better again soon. Our old farrier that we had got my mare to where she did not need shoes, but then he got hurt really bad by another horse and went out of business. And of course......All of the other farriers were not helping her. We finally found someone that is really good and he suggested shoes and he trims her toe off also..

He puts her shoes on backwards so she will be able to roll off of her toe too. she is getting better and better. it will take a couple of shoeing with this guy and for her to have this baby and she will be ok.. I HOPE!!!

talk to you again soon.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 198
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had a mare that had a allergic reaction to pennicillian (sp sorry) and foundered. Went through a bunch of stuff with the vet --as the founder started with vet treatment , anyways ended up working with our farrier and he cut the toe off too to make her roll over faster and eliminate the pain. It worked very well. Did not want to shoe her with the situation at hand. Wanted to get her past the founder point and then work on her feet. Anyways the trimming the toe off seems to work wonders as the mare could not walk before seeing the farrier and after the trim she walked off just fine.
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 03, 2006 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That sounds really encouraging. Now I am wondering if I should get the farrier out sooner . . . except Fifi is still having a hard time having her feet picked up, so I should maybe wait.

The causes of laminitis are sure many and varied . . . I'm sure learning a lot. Thanks for relaying your experience Kim.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 200
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 04, 2006 - 08:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ruth, Your welcome. :-) Seems the more you know the more you can learn , the better off you are. Take everyones experience and put it to use for yourself. One needs to pick and choose the info they use, You can get far with others experience !!

We did have to trim the toe about every 10 days to two weeks to keep the mare rolling over. And keep the frog cleaned out as the tissue seems to grow quickly in a newly foundered horse and will cause alot of pressure too.(The farrier taught my husband what to do and then the farrier would come back out about every 4th week --every other time) Depending on the laminitis itself, you may find the horse developing abscesses in the foot. These need to be clean out, letting the infection drain. Even soaking them in epson salt, batidine, iodine, formaldhyde, something to kill the bacteria. These can become real painful as well. We try to keep most of our horses barefoot as well. Unless there is a good reason to shoe then we let them go natural--that is what nature intended. There are different trimming methods that can be done instead of shoeing to help a horse that has foundered. I would only use shoeing as a last resort(driving nails into the hoof is very painful-- I have one vet that says wait until the foot is in better condition and one vet that says do whatever it takes to get shoes on a newly foundered horse, even have him out to sedate the horse to shoe him---not for us ! ) I will keep a horse barefoot before shoeing a newly foundered horse.

Just some more experience !

Good luck
Kim

ps, keep the foot or feet cool too . mud around the water tank, wet sand in the stall is a good way to keep the feet cool.Its naturally muddy here in Indiana right now ! But it keep the temp down in the hoof, hopefully keeping it from refoundering quickly.
With mud in mind you will also need to keep the frog cleaned out --from the mud packing and drying in the frog.

Laminitis is weird, many things can cause it. My farrier has a few mares that he trims and these mares founder after every foal they have. My friend thats been around all the circurts for many years believes that we HUMANS are the cause of many laminitis cases for the horse. If we didn't interfer with there natural way of things they would be fine ! Sometimes I have to agree with her , it seems that when we interfer with nature, we cause trouble.
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 11:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Beverly:

I am happy that Natalie/Holgatha is getting better and better, are you giving her anything? Was she /is she getting bute? Did you try any of homeopathics I told you about? It sounds like she is doing well with whatever you are doing. I have heard of putting the shoes on backwards, I am looking forward to when my farrier comes on the 12th to see what he does. I don't think he will shoe her though, she has only worn shoes once years ago, and I didn't really find any benefit - her feet were fine as they were. Actually, my farrier (believe it or not) preferes to not shoe a horse unless he/she really neededs it. Of course he may decide she fits that category now (but I hope not)?

I tried the "nail test", but using a small crystal on a string. I will have to try it again with a nail or a needle because the crystal did both, the straight line for a boy AND the circle for a girl!! Have you had that happen?

Thanks Kim for the information you have passed on to me. I agree with the person who says often humans cause the laminitis in their horses - IN MY CASE ITS TRUE. And I feel really horrible about it and guilty . . . I KNOW I was overfeeding her. I have learnt a lot, and hope and pray Fifi pulls through this, because I will NEVER let it happen again. I can't believe how much better she looks weight wise due the changes I have made in her feed. (Now if she would only be able to walk again without pain!)

I have not seen any indication of absesses yet, I check her coronary bands and heels every day for changes. I also use a homeopathic cream around her coronary bands and the top of her hooves hoping it might help. About the footing, because it has been raining for weeks, the sand in my runs are very wet, soft and cool. At least the weather is cooperating. Also with all this rain, my mare is quite content to stay in her stall and rest.

Here is a question for you, are pregnant horses, (even only 3 months pregnant) more tired than usual? Every lunch hour this week that I visit her she is lying down asleep in stall, and in no hurry to get up. She is fine later.
Thanks
 

Kim Winter
Yearling
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 71
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 08:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is possibly not much use to you as I have two reasons that my girl might lay down - but the same as you I should think - I have only seen her lay down once or twice in 4 yrs but about 5/6 months into her pregnancy she was laying down in the field quite late into the morning, HOWEVER, She was diagnosed with Navicular a few months after she was bred and it may be (she is quite large and seemed to grow quite early on) that the extra weight is making her feet sore as even though the farrier has been out to do her special shoes about 4 times now she is still quite lame and uncomfortable on a circle (fine when galloping around and bucking of her own accord though!)
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 202
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 09:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ruth,
Do you know that at lunch time she never laid down before ? Or is it just the case as you see it this week because you are visiting her at that time ? I can't say that a mare is that much more tired at this stage of the game, I would be more inclined to say she is getting off her feet for a while and resting them. You will notice her more getting off her feet to rest seeing that she has foundered, and understandingly so.

Sorry to hear the mishap with the feed. You can feed large portions mixed in the right rations to a horse, you just need to be informed. You need to know the amount of energy the feed has,what type of energy it is--where it comes from--ie. corn, oats,barley, a additive, ??, the what the horses is doing in exercise as well. There are some things on the market that can help a horses hoof grow. It takes a year for a horses hoof to regrow totally. If you are still giving her some grain it can be modified for the best results. There are some "natural" substances that can aid in the growth as well instead of paying the high price of a premix additive. Check with your feed mill rep and they should be able to help you, or talk to your vet they too can help with correct rations of grain and what the horse should have.

Good luck
Kim
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 74
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 09:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi ruth,

like everyone else said she may be really sore on her feet and just needs the rest. Of course with her being 21 also she may just be a little more tired than say a younger horse.

When we first moved out here, our horses never laid down, but after a while every day about lunch time and every night when it starts getting dark (in winter months) they would all almost lay in a circle and get up and then lay down again during the night.. My mare sleeps a good bit and she is only 13.

She is getting about 1 gram of bute every other day. She walks fine now. I think because she was sooo bad off at first and then we found someone who really knows what they are doing and trimmed her and put shoes on her she is getting better, but he had to take soo much toe off she was really sore for a few weeks. but now she is MUCH better.. And of course she is HUGE. She is close to 1200 lbs now. When she has the baby I am hoping she is going to loose some weight. We switched to a 10% grain too. She does not get much. just enough to taste.

Hope Fifi is doing better.
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 12:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Beverly:

I guess you are right, it's just that she is acting different with not getting up right away. But she is certainly fine other times, so that must be her nap time. I am going to be more aware of taking her temperature and knowing what her normal temp is. A better indicater of how she is doing. This morning it was 37.2 C

1 g of bute every other day for Holgatha is not much so it's great that that small amount makes a difference. Fifi started out on 2 g's twice a day then 1 g twice a day and after 10 days I quit. I don't mind giving it every so often, just not routinely anymore.

Thanks r.
 

Ruth Davidson
Neonate
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 11:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Fifi is doing MUCH better . . .tomorrow the farrier comes, so I have high hopes for what he is able to do with a good trim. She is now going out into the pasture in the afternoons and seems pretty happy. And I am too!! :-)
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 76
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Ruth,

I am sooo glad Fifi is doing much better... Hopefuly she will continue to get better and better... Trimming is usually a good thing. The worse thing of course would be shoes. In our case it was needed because our old farrier did not know a thing about foundered horses and messed her feet up worse. But thankfully we found someone who knows about founder and can help her out. i am hopeing after she has her baby we will still be able to do some light riding. i am keeping my fingers crossed and please keep your fingers crossed for me too.

i will keep my fingers crossed for you and Fifi...Keep us updated and don't forget to let us know when that beautiful baby is here...

Do you have any pictures of Fifi? I cant remember if I already asked you that. LOL.

anyway... i talk to you soon.
 

Kim Winter
Yearling
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 84
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 12:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now - I realise somethings are for the vet to suggest so just so you are aware - I wont be taking any action unless advised otherwise by my vet. I have already made a decision to wait unless absolutely necessary but what is the general concensus on Bute/Devils claw and pregnancy - I have seen that devils claw used to be thought of as being a bad idea but has recently been studied and it isnt proven that it causes any ill effects and bute I thought was a no 'just in case' I have bought some devils claw for after the foal is weaned if I can leave it that long without my mare getting uncomfortable- what are others experiences?
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 205
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim,
My experiences with a mare in foal on bute have been very successful. As I mentioned in a above post about a medication reaction this mare was also just bred when she foundered. We had to keep her on bute to keep her moving and somewhat comfortable at times. She was on a min. of 2 bute tablets a day for the last nine months of her preg. The foal turned out just fine and mom did great too.

Good luck
Kim K
 

Beverly Outlaw
Yearling
Username: Outlawpaints

Post Number: 79
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 03:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kim W.,

Hi! I am not a vet or dare say I even know half of what a vet knows, but i have learned a lot from the equine groups I am on. i would suggests getting a vets opinion on anything, but these thoughts are just that thoughts, so please take that in to consideration.

i was told no bute for pregnant mares because it has not been tested on them. I was told it is like taking aspirin for a human pregnancy. It thins your blood and can harm the fetus because the placenta can get very thin in places. Bute on a long term basis also causes ulcers, BUT with saying this i am giving my horse bute for her founder. She is not getting much, but it helps.


Ihave no idea about the devils claw except i have heard that was a BIG NO NO.

I guess I will know how it turns out son. my mare is due mid march so i will let you all know.

I only use it if necessary. good luck!
 

Ruth Davidson
Nursing Foal
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 10:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

To Kim W & Kim K:

I did not continue with the bute on my mare because her mother died from a "ruptured stomach" from bute overuse! She had also foundered and I was treating her with bute, this was over 15 years ago and I can't exactly remember how much she was getting. I should mention that at that time we did not have an equine vet in our area and I was trying to treat her alone.

I have also found something that works as well for Fifi and is not dangerous (Homeopathic Traumeel Tabs). I don't think I would try anything without a vets approval as far as the Devils' Claw goes. I know horses (maybe not all?)can be very good at knowing what is best for them if they have the opportunity to forage amoungst wild herbs & scrub. We are lucky in this area now in that we have not only a few good equine vets but also a naturopathic vet that will treat horses working along the equine vets. (She does mostly small animals otherwise).

Beverly:

I DO have my fingers (and toes) crossed for Holgatha and her baby. I hope both she and Fifi have filly's :-) please please please

You had not asked me before for a picture of Fifi. I do have some on my harddrive. I could forward them to your personal email, I wouldn't know how else to get them to you as far as posting them like you and others on this site do!~!?? I am not that smart.

Oh, my farrier today was very happy with Fifi's progress! (he last saw her 2 weeks ago and she was too sore then for him to do any trimming). He gave her the trim and said shoes at this point would be cruel when I asked his opinion on them. He said we would have to wait and see how things progress as to what might need doing in the future, she may need shoes then.

I love this site . . . you guys are all so helpful.

r.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 206
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ruth,
I can only go by my experience. I am aware that too much bute can cause stomach problems, but my mare could not walk period. After a good trimming from the farrier and bute twice a day she seemed to manage ok and make it through till the end of her pregency. We did trim almost every ten days to two weeks. I am so glad to here that your farrier thinks that it would be cruel to shoe your mare while she is recovering. I could not imange having nails pounded into a hoof that is trying to recover from founder. My vet and farrier thinks the same way under most situations. Get a good hoof under the horse and then work on corrective footwork. There are few situations that a newly foundered horse should have shoes on. There are many trimming methods that can be used instead of pounding shoes on.

Good luck with your mare
Kim
 

Ruth Davidson
Nursing Foal
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Kim,

I do agree with you. You've been a wealth of information, all of replies I have recieved, I have learnt tons from.

How is your mare now? Better I hope. I was very happy today because my mare has just started going out into the field a little bit the last few days and today wanted to go into the back field, usually her favorite place. I opened her gate and she walked out so much better, still slow & steady but we are definately past her just laying down in her stall depressed/and in pain stage! My farrier said she is not entirely "out of the woods" yet, but I am more positive and think each day will get better for her. I can see it in her eyes too, she's not in as much pain and is interested in what is going on around her again. :-)

ruth
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 207
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 12, 2006 - 08:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ruth,
Yes, my mare is better now. This happened to her 14 years ago. She still has a bad day every now and then. We can ride her lightly without any trouble. She is a beautiful bay toby mare and I am thankful to the farrier that helped pull her out of it. She gives us a beautiful baby spotted baby every year :-) . The vet at the time was no help and set us up for each call after the allergic reaction happened. Charged us 2.00 a minute to pull shoes that she had on at the time(she was a 4 year old and we were doing alot of riding)I flipped my gourd ! Since then we have learned to ask how much first and then make our decisions from there. Having a farm full of many types of animals, we try to do as much of our own vet work as possible. The mare ended up being toxic with antibiotic--the vet treated for strangles (we thought it was a splinter in her), then when the alergic reation happened and he tested her for the toxic levels he also tested her for stranges and it came back neg. (test is normally not worth doing --most will just treat for strangles first as it is cheaper). Now , I don't use antibiotics for anything unless it is a really really good cause for it. It took the mare a good year to come around and then we still trimmed her often for the following couple of years. Her foot still grows differntly than the rest and we have to watch it, keep her off spring grass. You can watch the rings in the foot and see what your horse has experienced.
After a trimming when its fresh, there will sometimes be a light blood ring(I'm not a farrier, so this is in laymens terms !)and according to what i've been told this can be a sign of what some farriers call "ticked" . Can be caused by lots of things. New batch of grain, over eating, spring grass, stressed and the list goes on. You can learn alot about your horse by its hoof and foot. The frog is like a second heart and pumps the blood back up the leg. It is real interesting the info that I have read on a horses foot.

Best of luck with your mare.
Kim
 

Ruth Davidson
Nursing Foal
Username: Ruth_d

Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Friday, January 13, 2006 - 01:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is great that your mare is okay now. I am glad she is able to carry a foal without problems with her feet. I was wondering what might happen to my mare when she gets heavy in foal, but it sounds like good care and being careful are the answer. Thanks for sharing your story. r.



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