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Blk/Wht paint mare with roaning?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Blk/Wht paint mare with roaning? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Kjersti Tackett
Nursing Foal
Username: Freetodreamarabians

Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 02, 2006 - 11:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a 4 yr old tobiano mare (blk/wht) that I'm wondering what color she really is; maybe some of you have seen this and could tell me. She has alot of white hairs amongst the black in between the white/pink skin areas. She has no white hairs on her head at all so that rules out going gray I believe and none on her only mostly black leg it's just mainly her body and hinquarters. She's grade so I have no idea what her parentage is; could she be a roan tobiano? Is roan progressive like grey?
This mare had a filly that's turning two next month (yes the mare foaled as a 2yr old we rescued her and didn't know she was pregnant long story, nice surprise) well the filly is solid black except for two socks on her back legs that have black spots inside the white does that make sense. Well I went out today and brushed the filly and she's getting white hairs too! mostly concentrated over her hips but some on her body and shoulders. over her hips theres probably about 500 or so. She did not have any white hairs last year. Is this possible? what gene are these white hair attributed to? I'll admit I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about roan/paint/grullo ect as we mostly breed arabians and well they aren't as colorful. I can take some pictures and post them if that helps. Thanks alot for you guys' insight I am very curious.
 

Jan H
Breeding Stock
Username: Jan_h

Post Number: 365
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 09:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

sounds like you have a tobiano who also carries the sabino gene (can cause roaning in the areas you are talking about) I have a filly whose mother carries the sabino gene, her roaning is coming in the same area.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cmpsp1/926782d1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cmpsp1/56d94861.jpg
 

Kjersti Tackett
Neonate
Username: Freetodream

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 11, 2006 - 03:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow that's alot what it looks like. I didn't really think of sabino because both of them have solid heads and the filly only has two little socks up to her fetlocks. Usually the sabinos I've seen are more loud with wide blazes, high stockings and sometimes belly white but it's certainly possible. Sabino shows up a lot of different ways I guess. Roan doesn't really fit from what I've read because it's not progressive like they're as roan as they're going to be when they shed their foal coat which isn't the case here. I'll have to do some more research on it though. The mare is pregnant again right now (due in Feb) so it ought to be interesting to see what this baby looks like as she's bred to my grey sabino arabian stallion. Thanks for the input I appreciate it.
 

Gynna Meiller
Breeding Stock
Username: Jw_kings_excalibur

Post Number: 149
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 12:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thing to remember about the sabino gene is that it comes in many forms. I have a mare with NO white on her legs and a very irregular thin star/strip, but, her feet are all stiped and she throws much white on her foals. My stallion shows a bit more of the sabino gene in his two high white socks just a bit over his knees and irregular as well as egret spots( which is the dark spots on his white leg markings)and an irregular star strip and snip with a white chin. He has thrown four colts, one is a tovero paint out of a paint mare, one is just like him but with THREE high socks, our colt that has an irregular star, strip snip and a half pasturn that is only partialy white( and only a white stripe in his hoof) and one grey colt..
But, sabino can be seen on the face and yes, they can shed out with more and more white. Roans can shed out many times and increase their roaning some until about 7 yrs old but their legs and head will stay true to thier base color. So, if your mare is black and still has a black head as well as black legs then I would say she is a blue roan, if her legs are changing then she could be carring the sabino or rubicano gene...hard to say without seeing pics though..
 

Kjersti Tackett
Neonate
Username: Freetodream

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 02:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here are some pictures that may help; hope they work
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/freetodream/P6080025.jpg

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/freetodream/kashastrpedhoovesweb-1.jpg

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/freetodream/kasharoan.jpg

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/freetodream/kasharoan2.jpg
 

Diane Gatlin
Neonate
Username: Dhgatlin

Post Number: 10
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 12, 2006 - 02:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have the same type of areas on my gypsy vanner stallion. I contacted a color genetics equine specialist and she reviewed my pics. She told me it was not uncommon for "paint breeds" to show signs of a combination of sabino, overo, and tobiano expressions.
I found this very interesting as I had always called it his "muddy spot"! LOL I wanted to know if he would past this on to his foals. She told me it was a possibility, but not a definate. He is homozygous for tobi so the other variations will de pend on the genetic make up of the mare.
 

Jan H
Breeding Stock
Username: Jan_h

Post Number: 373
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 08:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, my foal carries the overo, tobiano and sabino genes...the sire is a Homozygous Tobiano which has the Tovero expression (tobiano/overo) the dam is a minimally expressed sabino.

This is the sire:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cmpsp1/86cc6b2f.jpg
This is the dam:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cmpsp1/MyMare.jpg
and the foal:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b399/cmpsp1/9501161c.jpg
 

Kjersti Tackett
Neonate
Username: Freetodream

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So does this make her more likely to pass color? Somewhere I thought I had read that the more color patterns a horse has or exhibits then it ups there chances of throwing color. Like tovero is 75% chance of some kind of color instead of 50% of regular heterozygous tobiano. Does it work the same for Sabino? I would guess probly not the same as sabino can be there and just not be expressed correct? Either way it's good to know even if the foals are solid I like the chance of extra chrome Next February should be interesting!
 

Jan H
Breeding Stock
Username: Jan_h

Post Number: 374
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

if you breed any heterozygous tobiano/overo/sabino etc horse to a solid horse the chances are the same whether they are tobiano/sabino/overo alone. However there is evidence that a Tovero does have up to 80% chance of producing a spotted foal if bred to a non-paint horse. Of course the color thing could increase for chrome when you breed a tovero with a horse who may carry the sabino gene, then you may get more white or flashy tobiano like I got with this breeding. White has a way of expressing itself in many ways, when ever you play with paint, you just never know what your gonna get! Homozygous Tobiano is the only paint that will throw 100% paint foals, the rest is governed by the law of % and averages :-)

(Message edited by Jan_H on July 17, 2006)

(Message edited by Jan_H on July 17, 2006)



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