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All white, but a genetic buckskin!!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » All white, but a genetic buckskin!! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Jennifer
Neonate
Username: Kidchaser5

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all,

Sorry if you get this twice, but I didn't see it posted! Ok, I am new here and have lots of questions about my colt Lucius! I recently had him tested for coat color and here are his results:

Red factor: E/e
Agouti: A/a
Cream dilution: N/Cr
Sabino 1: N/SB1

I had to call UC Davis to get further clarification on what his base color was(since you can't see it), and they told me he was a genetic buckskin! Ok, Lucius' full sister is a dun. I want to know if they can tell for sure that he is a buckskin and not a dun? I will call them back to ask this, but if someone else can tell me here, any information I can get is greatly appreciated! His sire is a palomino and dam is a grullo. Can this produce a buckskin?
 

Paula Rollins
Neonate
Username: Paula

Post Number: 10
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds to me like he is a max sabino, which is all white regardless of base color. He does have a cream gene occording to his results and he is black based with agouti which is a buckskin. He could also carry the dun gen but that cannot be tested for so only his progeny would tell that. The creme gene is what the palomino gave to make him buckskin. Dun although similair color to buckskin is different. If the white wasn't covering his color you could look for the dorsal stripe and leg barring that would be from the dun gene. If he does have the dun gene he would be A sabino dunskin. which he would have three different modifiers. Sabino, dun , cream. Do you have any pictures? He sounds interesting!
 

Cindy Moore
Nursing Foal
Username: Chorse_1998

Post Number: 13
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Duns will ALWAYS have a stripe down their back, buckskins do not have a stripe. Yes it is possible that crossing can produce a buckskin. It would be neat to see what he would throw is your are leaving him a stud.}
 

Megan A Brown
Neonate
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 5
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can get a buckskin from that cross. The Cr gene is what makes a horse bucksin and palamino, and He has one copy of the Cr gene from his daddy so he is a buckskin. There isn't a test for the dun gene so unless he has a visible doral stripe or other primitve markings such as zebra stripes on his legs, you can't tell if he recived the Dun gene from his mama. Grullo is a black,or brown Dun. Lucius Has The A gene from his mama so he has a black base color If he din't have the Cr gene he would eighter be black or grullo, depending on wether or not he has the Dun gene. Incidently in turms of registration, I know in the AQHA Dun trumps buckskin. That is even if your horse is a gentic buckskin if they have the dun gene they are still called duns when they should really be dunskins. If his full sister has a white mane and tail and a dorsal stripe she may actually be a dunalino. Another tell tale sign of the Dun factor is a more mat color to their coats, where as buckskins tend to have a more irridesent quality.
 

Megan A Brown
Neonate
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does he have any color on him at all? any where?
Is his mane white too? If he has a black mane and tail you might be able to judge wether he was dun or not. Duns manes and tails tend to have a bit of hair at the top of their tails that is their body color, somtimes you can see a trace of the dorsal stripe in the tail. Also Buckins can have frosting in their manes and tails that is white over a pure black mane, but that may not be as applicable in your case. How old is he now?
 

Jennifer
Neonate
Username: Kidchaser5

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually for him to be a maximal sabino, he would have to have two copies of the sabino gene. I was surprised myself that he only had one, since he is completely white! But this is what UC Davis told me!

NOPE! No color whatsoever!! The only reason he can be registered in the 'regular' registry with APHA is because of the Sabino gene! He has black flecks/splotches of skin on the skin of his tail, under his forelock, a little on the withers, inside the right ear, and on either side of his flanks. BUT ONLY THE SKIN IS MOTTLED, NO COLOR SHOWS IN HIS HAIR!

Can I put a pic right here in the post?
 

Paula Rollins
Nursing Foal
Username: Paula

Post Number: 11
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

well what do they call an all white sabino? Thats what I thought a maximum sabino was?Very interesting.
 

Megan A Brown
Neonate
Username: Fabmeg

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 01:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow unless they figure out how to test for the dun factor in his life time, or you breed him, you'll never know. That's crazy!
 

Lori aka " Raven"
Breeding Stock
Username: Raven

Post Number: 196
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 06:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A photo can only be posted through Photobucket.com and then post the link.
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 122
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One thing to keep in mind is that only one type of sabino gene can be tested for. He could have another type also.
Shires and Clydesdales are 100% sabinos but test neg. for sabino with that test.
 

Kris Moos
Breeding Stock
Username: Kris

Post Number: 550
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I too have an almost white horse, but she has reddish brown legs and barring, dorsal stripe, wither stripe, cobwebbing, neck shadows, ears and ear tips, with a black frosted mane and tail. she tested genetically buckskin but is also a dun,("DUNSKIN") and like i said she is off white, she comes from a bay roan and a dun stallion.
she "carries and expresses" the roan gene as well as her cream gene, therefore she is a frosted buttermilk dun roan,
is either parent a roan or slightly roaned at all that the same thing could be true with yours?
I would love to see photos!
so will he be registered as a buckskin?
any darker shaded shadows of a dorsal or leg barring or anything?
 

Jennifer
Neonate
Username: Kidchaser5

Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I posted pics of Lucius in my other post, 'what+what=buckskin?', for those who wanted to see him!
 

Shannon Sylvia
Neonate
Username: Cyberlotus

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2009
Posted on Monday, August 10, 2009 - 01:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Jennifer,

I stumbled upon your story about your colt, while researching the web in preparation for building a new webiste solely focusing on Maximum Sabino horses. The site will be a place for owners to connect, with a place to post ads, a forum etc...
I was surprised to see that your foal is a max. sabino with only one SB1 gene - just like my mare. It took me two years to confirm her color type.She also inherits a creme gene from her palomino parents. Her father had Sabino markings and that is what finally led me to the discovery. I have a lot more to learn about the genetics behind this remarkable color, and have been told that not all of the Sabino genes have been identified yet.
There is a common thread amongst the coloring of these horses that sets them apart; predomently pink skin with black mottling, especially around the jaw and under tail dock area; "ink" spots (either hidden from view and on the skin or in the hair itself); a few black hair strands mixed with the white in the mane and tail; small areas of light roaning or small spots or ear tips; white eyelashes; and striped hooves. My mare has all of the above. When I am ready to post the site, I would very much like to post a photo of your Lucius, with your permission? It will be a while before I am ready to do that. Also, I would be very interested in seeing a photo of your horse Kris? (maybe you have posted one elsewhere in the thread?). Shannon
 

Kris Moos
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kris

Post Number: 1297
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 11, 2009 - 07:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

shannon
here is a link to my mare
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/preciousafterbath.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_2220.jpg
and here she is next her her buckskin 1/2 brother
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_0600.jpg

she has a star on her face (or did as a foal) but it is hardly visible anymore, she seems to be roaning out more but her face really shouldnt be. She keeps her black on her nasal bones but most of her black fades to red.
if youd like more let me know.
 

Mary Greer
Breeding Stock
Username: Cowgirlup07

Post Number: 232
Registered: 02-2008
Posted on Thursday, August 20, 2009 - 08:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He sure is pretty! I cant help you much but just thought I'd tell ya I think he is just beautiful (well handsome since he is a stud)



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