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Bay or Black?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Bay or Black? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Kassie Finley
Yearling
Username: Jkqh

Post Number: 64
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, many of you know I just bought a mare a couple of weeks ago. Here is my questions, on her papers she is registered as a Bay, but most people say she looks black. They lady I bought her from even called her black. She is more brownish black on her belly and she has a brown nose. I am wanting to know if it is possibly for her to be black? I am thinking about getting the UC Davis test on her to find out for sure. Also her father was Black, and her mother was Bay, now I don't know if either where homo for black but is it possibly that she could be homo for black? She has had 3 foals all out of Palomino Studs, and one turned out to be a grulla or smokey black (can't remember) another one was Bay, and the other was Black. Is there any relation here?

Also she is bred to a gray homo tobiano stallion. I know nothing about the gray gene. What color do you think are possible here? I was thinking a bay, black, or gray possibilty.

Just looking for input. I am always wanting to learn more
 

Gynna Meiller
Yearling
Username: Jw_kings_excalibur

Post Number: 91
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 08:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She may be a Brown or a Black Bay. Both of which can pass on the black gene as they are black base. They have discoved that the Brown color is an actual gene modifier (like bay or aoguti), AT instead of AA or Aa so I have heard.
With a grey you stand a 50% chance of grey. AS for any other color I beleive it depends on the base color of the grey and his parents as well as the mares.
So much to learn on color genetics..AHHHG!
 

Jenn
Weanling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 48
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Kassie. I saw your pictures of your mare. She is beautiful. We have a mare with similar coloring. We always refer to her as black for simplicity but in truth she is what I have seen refered to as Seal Brown. What our mare is seems to be a very dark bay.
The only thing that I have to add to what Gynna had to say is just a brief explanation of Gray. Genetically Gray is not it's own color, it is a color modifier (like the cream or roan genes). It is very rare for Gray to show at birth. It can take up to two years for the graying process to start (but signs of graying usually become obvious before their 1st birthday). Something else to remeber about gray is it is a process. Every gray horse will eventually turn white (if they live long enough). Any offspring from a gray horse will have a 50% chance of getting the gray gene. And Gynna is correct about what other colors the combination can produce. Every gray horse started out a different color (black, bay, chestnut, etc). I managed to get a first hand lessen in gray horses because I bought a black filly who is now a silvery gray mare.
I thought it would be briefer than that. Sorry.
 

Kassie Finley
Yearling
Username: Jkqh

Post Number: 65
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 11:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you both very much. I am still learning all this color genetics stuff lol. I know the dilute gene pretty well, since we have a Cremello I studied up on that, but missed all the other stuff . Hany how thanks so much. Oh, there is a possibility that we will be getting another mare from the same people. we had bought a mare from someone else but she turned out to have some problems and we backed out, so now we are thinking about this other mare. She is bred back to the same gray homo stud and she is a sorrel. Anyhow she is due the same time as the other mare. So we might have two foals this year. We are going to look at her tonight. I am looking forward to these two foals since I know nothing about the gray gene, I think this will teach me a lot about it. thanks
 

Jenn
Weanling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 49
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Remeber that the gray gene is a completely different gene than the cream gene, they just both change the base color. Here is a picture of my gray mare. She is my darling. In this picture I had the mares "mowing" the grass in the yard and Sequel wanted to help my husband read the paper.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/JennsPaints/Sequel/SequelandLloyd.jpg
Keep in mind that this mare was very black until she was 6 months. She is now 7 years.
 

Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris

Post Number: 70
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 02:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

jenn- she is very pretty, i like the split color mane. Just to add another thing about a gray, there has to be a gray parent to get a gray (from what i have been told), gray is not a "throw back" color from previous grays.
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 51
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 04:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very true. Only a gray will produce a gray. And thank you for the compliment, I shall pass it on to Sequel. That is not the most flattering picture of her, but she is a big, deep Quincy horse that goes back to alot of the foundation QH horses such as Wimpy, Joe Reed, etc many times and has the build to prove it.
 

Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris

Post Number: 72
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 05:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have never seen a gray with a split mane color, usually it is solid, either its origional base color or white. Is she a paint cross to get the graying in suck a unique way?
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 53
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes she is a registered Paint tobiano. Her tobiano markings are getting a little difficult to see but if you look closely below the white part of her mane there is actually a white marking. She has a split mane and the other side of her mane is also alternate black and white about every 6". She also has a black and white tail.
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 54
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For comparison, here she is at two.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e284/JennsPaints/Sequel/Sequelattwo.jpg
She filled out A WHOLE LOT after she was 2.
 

Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris

Post Number: 74
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 07:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

she is very pretty! i notice the snow, and i am assuming yo are still in snow...how has your weather been in canada? (I live in Minnesota.
 

Jenn
Yearling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 57
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have had a very mild winter, but yes we have lots of snow. I heard that we have had the warmest January on record. It sounds like winters have been unusually warm all over this year. I worry about our horses getting too warm when it is like this. They have grown their "middle of winter" coats, but we have been getting spring weather since early December.
 

Heather Kutyba
Weanling
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 29
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 12:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all,
Kassie,
Sounds like your mare is colored similar to mine. She is often referred to as black or dark bay, but is a Seal Brown. She is predominatly black with a fading brown around her muzzle and flanks. Her ears also get tufts of the lighter brown when fuzzy.
I bred her to a bay stallion that was homozygous for the black gene. Genetically speaking, my mare could ONLY have a bay, black, or brown foal. True to form, she had a brown baby. He is marked identical to her....primarily black, with lighter brown fading.
As Gynna mentioned, Seal Brown's have a form of modifier. They are in the Bay catagory, but their color is distributed a little differently due to the AT combination, which I am still fuzzy understanding. BUT, I love the seal brown color, so even better!
Here in TX, our winter has been pretty mild. My mare literally has a show coat....no winter fuzz.
 

Kassie Finley
Yearling
Username: Jkqh

Post Number: 66
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for everyones response. I am very much looking forward to this foal. I can't wait to see its color. I will post pictures of the foal when it arrives and let everyone see him/her. I am hoping for a filly



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