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Homozygous Black Gene?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Homozygous Black Gene? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Kassie Finley
Nursing Foal
Username: Jkqh

Post Number: 18
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 11:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have been thinking about purchasing a stallion that is Homozygous for the black gene. but I found that the horse does not have to be black to be homozygous for black gene. My question is, if the horse is say a Grulla and homozygous black what color of foals will he produce? Will they be black even though he is not black? Or will they be like buckskins, bays, or grullas ect.?
 

Jenn
Neonate
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kassie, black and red are just base colors. Other genes will impact how the color appears.

A grulla is a black dun. What this means is that the base color is black and then the dun gene alters the appearance.

A bay is a black with agouti. Agouti limits the appearance of the black colour to the horses points (Main, tail, lower legs,etc.)

A buckskin is a black with agouti and cream. And so on. Horses that are black, buckskin, dun, grulla, bay, perilino, blue roan and brown could all possibly be homozygous for black.

Solid black can be a tricky colour to breed for because it is just a base colour and any secondary colour genes (agouti, dun, cream, etc.) will alter the appearance to make the horse no longer "Black".

"My question is, if the horse is say a Grulla and homozygous black what color of foals will he produce?" If you have a homozygous black stallion, all of his babys will be a black based colour, beyond that, it all depends on what other genes (agouti, cream, etc.) are in the gene pools of the stallion and mare.

Sorry to be so long winded, but I hope this helps to answer your question. I find genetics facinating and have a lot of time doing research.

Good luck.
 

Cindy Moore
Neonate
Username: Chorse_1998

Post Number: 7
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 07:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


If your stallion is homozygous for the black gene, most of the time he will throw black legs on his foals, regardless of the mare color. My dun stallion threw 4 black legged babies this last year - 2 from sorrel mares, 1 from a sorrel paint mare and 1 from a bay mare.
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Jenn
Neonate
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 10:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What color was the rest of the horse? They should be bay and/or dun from the description of the mares.
 

Cindy Moore
Neonate
Username: Chorse_1998

Post Number: 8
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 08:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)


I got a dun out of a sorrel mare, a dun out of a bay mare, and 2 bays out of sorrel mares. The 2 dun colts were almost identical, short of the white on the colt's face.
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Kelly Lea Adams
Weanling
Username: Kelly_lea

Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Monday, January 09, 2006 - 05:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Cindy,

Sounds like your stallion could be homozygous for more than just his black gene. His genetics could read EE AA Crcr Dd, which means he's homozygous for the black gene, homozygous for the agouti gene, has one creme gene, one dun factor gene and will never produce anything less than a bay.

It should be interesting to see if he produces any sorrels or blacks in the future. :-)

Kelly Adams
 

Kim Winter
Yearling
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 81
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 09:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What would you need to find in a stallion to breed a buckskin out of a sorrel or a bay? A cremello is it for a bay mare?
 

Jenn
Nursing Foal
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 11
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 10, 2006 - 12:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are correct. A cremello or perlino would give you at least a 50% chance of buckskin on a Heterozygous bay mare (the other 50% is palomino). If the mare is homozygous for black and agouti a cremello or perlino would give you a buckskin %100 of the time.
Getting a buckskin out of a sorrel is a little trickier. The best chance would be from a mating with a perilino (black based double dilute) as long as one of the two horses carry the agouti gene (agouti is not visible on sorrel or perlino). If the perlino is heterozygous for black (and at least one of the horses carry agouti), the odds are 50% buckskin and 50% palomino. The only other option to get a buckskin from a sorrel is to breed to a buckskin, but you will only get the cream gene 50% of the time.

Basically a buckskin is black with agouti and cream. There are more options with the bay because all she is missing is the cream. You could breed the bay to a palomino or buckskin, but you would only get the cream gene 50% of the time, and if your mare is not homozygous for black, odds would be better with a buckskin to get a buckskin.

I hope this makes a little sense to you. Horse colour genetics can be very confusing. Here are some websites with some good colour genetics info.
http://www.apha.com/forms/guidebooks.html

http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/service/horse/coatcolor.html
http://www.equinecolor.com/
 

Kim Winter
Yearling
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 85
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 03:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perfect sense. Thankyou very much : )
 

Sheila Westerfield
Neonate
Username: Sheilawesterfieldfamilyfarmscom

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Monday, November 06, 2006 - 12:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,
Just found the board and find the color genetics very interesting . Also very interested in the large heart info and the prepotency issue.

A perlino that is homozygous black and agouti will produce buckskin...



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