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Can BS Paints throw color on solid stallion??

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Can BS Paints throw color on solid stallion?? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Tansy Brassfield
Nursing Foal
Username: Spccutnoak

Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Monday, October 10, 2005 - 07:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a few clients who want to breed their solid paint mares to my palomino QH stallion. I was wondering if a solid can throw a colored paint when bred to a QH? Or if the chances are really slim? Maybe the chances increase if the mare came from two paint parents? Just thought I would ask since they want to know before they breed. Thanks
 

arablvr31
Neonate
Username: Arablvr31

Post Number: 3
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most likely, the solid mares bred to a solid stallion would produce solid babies. Occasionally a mare or stallion may carry a hidden Overo gene and produce a colored foal with 2 basically solid parents. It is this scenario that produces the formerly "crop out" foals that the AQHA used to reject but now allow under the expanded white rule.

This is less likely to happen if the mares have Tobiano parentage. It is also not likely if neither the stallion or the mare has any history of producing "crop-outs"

I guess the best answer is that 99.5% of the time you will get a solid foal from 2 solid parents, but rarely a foal with lots of white will be born.
 

Emma
Nursing Foal
Username: Emma

Post Number: 18
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The gene that causes the crop outs in Quarter Horses is not the overo gene it is the sabino gene. Quarter Horses do not carry the overo gene. The sabino gene is qiet common in a lot of breeds including arabs, Thoroughbreds, clydesdales and welsh ponies. When you get a big double does of the sabino gene it can also present itself as a all white horse but it is not a leathal foal, just simply the sabino gene gone wild. That is why there is testing for the overo gene. So people can differentiate between Overo's and Sabino's.
 

Cathy
Yearling
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 52
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Emma you are right on everything except for one point. There is no test for overo. The test is for lethal white. It is very prevalent in overo. Recent thought is that all overo carry the gene, but it has not been proven. Cathy
 

Emma
Nursing Foal
Username: Emma

Post Number: 19
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 01:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm not sure where you are Cathy but in australia the test that is done is called the OLW test or Overo Leathal White test. So to my knowledge the only way of breeding a leathal foal is by breeding Overo to Overo with a 1 in 4 chance of breeding a leathal. I havn't seen or heard of a Overo (coloured or solid) that didn't carry the leathal gene.
 

Cathy
Yearling
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 53
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 10:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Emma what I said was "There is no test for overo. The test is for lethal white" and "Recent thought is that all overo carry the gene, but it has not been proven" There are horses that are not overo that carry the LWO gene.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 143
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In generalization, in the APHA , the sabino gene is considered a overo , they are not broken apart.
 

Emma
Weanling
Username: Emma

Post Number: 30
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2005 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was what i was trying to say before, thank you kim. I would consider all horses registered Overo but to not carry the gene as a loud sabino. You will find that even though these horses look like a overo they will produce foals with the 4 white stockings and a blaze instead of reproducing there own loud characteristic when bred with solid colour mares.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 146
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 09:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can have a solid horse, even a AQHA horse that carries the lethel gene. The lethel gene seems to hide and the more the white on a horse--high white stockings,as much white on the face, the horse will tend to carry a overo gene. I myself have seen and solid horse carry a lethel gene producing a lethel foal. As well, I have a moderate sabino pattern mare that throws max sabino patterns. Most would even consider her a roan mare, but she is a sabino and is registered a reg. registery paint. The foals she has produced are very white, with med hats and some flecking on their chests,back and legs. The foals have been out of a overo stallion. It will be interesting what we produce in the upcoming years as we have had to replace our stallion. OUr goal is to breed with the most different color patterns, it increases your chances of a regular registry paint. I have toveros, tobys, overos, and overos with the sabino pattern . Will be breeding to a chestnut overo/with some flecking, should carry the sabino gene too. Its fun !
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 147
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also , I believe that there is a test for the sabino gene , but not absolutley sure. Would have to do some checking. That is also the gene that is in the Clydsdales... the sabino gene is what gives them their high whites and flecking
 

Cathy
Yearling
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 62
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 11:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Nope, no test for sabino yet.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 148
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 12:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The University of Kentucky does do testing for the sabino gene. Here is a link to their website
http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/VetScience/textpages/epvrl.HTM#Sabino
I thought someone did , I think that UCS Davis does too, but having trouble finding the web site I was looking for.

Kim
 

Cathy
Yearling
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 63
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How new is that test I used UofK for color testing one of my horses not to long ago and that test was not on their site. Very interesting. thanks
 

Dona Neargarder
Neonate
Username: Kickapoominis

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is why it's important to SPECIFY exact color patterns. Don't just use the term "Overo", as many group Frame, Splash & Sabino ALL as Overos. Only FRAME is associated with the LWO gene.

The LWO gene determines whether a horse carries "Frame" or not. Any horse carrying LWO, may or may not display the actual FRAME PATTERN...as it can have other pinto patterns as well (Toveros) which can obscure the typical Frame pattern. ANY Tovero has a chance of carrying the LWO gene, and should be tested.



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