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Can a pony be born of two horses?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Can a pony be born of two horses? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Kim Rose
Nursing Foal
Username: Kleonaptra

Post Number: 16
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2010 - 11:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ok guys I need a little help here!

My stallion turned four on the 21st of january. It took me a few weeks to realize that he hadnt grown. He has two half brothers, let me lay it out for you.

My mare Teshan looks like an anglo arab (no papers or history avaliable despite searching!) and is 15.2hh she was bred to SK Shakla Kahn, a 15hh pure bred arab. First foal has matured at about 14.3 and is definitely a horse. Second foal to the same stallion has matured at 16hh and looks really thoroughbred. He has a successful show career as a partbred arab halter horse, going into riddens now.

Third breeding was to stallion Fairview Touch of Magic whose father is SK Shakla Kahn. I wanted to stay in the SK line while incorporating the blood of the silver family. Magic is out of Windella Silver Shadow, so in this breeding I got everything I wanted. I had planned on a filly to breed this line, wasnt expecting a stallion but I'm so happy with the result I've decided to keep him entire and breed with him. He is now a registered partbred arabian stallion - registered as Crescent Moon Zayfir.

I always thought he would mature at about 15hh. I'd been buying him 6ft rugs thinking he would grow into them. Over the last few weeks I've realized he's not going to grow any more, he's barely 14hh! But the hieght is not the issue. He IS A PONY. He has all the pony traits, short thick neck, snubby (but dished!) face. He looks a lot like a welsh pony. I took a photo of him at three and a half, and he looks like a little horse, so I thought he would grow. Now he's nearly four and a half, and he looks more like a pony every day!

If he was shown at the arabian breed shows, he would be classified as horse. If at an agricultural show, he would be in a pony ring. He has funny paces due to an injury when he was a foal and has locking stifle on the off hind, so he wont be showing. Thats not my problem. My problem is, I thought his dam was an anglo, even though I couldnt prove it her first two foals were so good I assumed she must have had good parents. Now Im thinking if there's a pony in there, what exactly is my boy going to produce? I am planning on having the dam dna typed with the arabian registry.

I believe he is a pony, but he was born of two horses. What do you guys think?
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 3128
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 08:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that if he is showing so many 'pony' characteristics that they will show up in any foals you produce from him. If he is not desireable offspring himself, I would have him gelded.
 

Kim Rose
Nursing Foal
Username: Kleonaptra

Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My aim with him was to breed versatile riding horses good for any discipline. Being a pony doesnt really change that - he can still produce good riding ponies. He has a stunning look to him and utterly fantastic, well conformed legs, something a lot of arab breds, including his half brother, are lacking.

My question was, can he be a true pony born of horses? He sure looks like one, but his two brothers are horses, so there must be horse there too.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 3132
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2010 - 10:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, i certainly didn't mean any disrespect to you or your ponyboy...LOL ....the way you phrased your topic, it made it sound as if you didn't expect or want these traits. As far as your question goes (sorry i missed the point completely) I once had a horse out of 2 horses who grew to only 12.2hh . Technically, he was a pony, b/c of his size. I guess i'm not sure what you mean by "true pony". AS in all horses under certain height are considered ponies....sometimes it's just hard to tell the difference in a small horse and a large pony LOL

(Message edited by kdgilger on April 08, 2010)
 

Kim Rose
Nursing Foal
Username: Kleonaptra

Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, apology accepted! Unexpected characteristics yes, undesirable, no. By 'True Pony' I simply mean aside from being very short....(next to his 16hh half brother) he has that very thick neck, curly coat, very pony face. His mom, despite being 15.2hh has a bit of a welsh (pony) look to her. It just came as a sudden shock that hey, he's now over 4yrs and thats it, he wont ever be the size of his half brothers. As he was growing I had this image of him in my mind full grown, this 16hh dapple grey monster, and instead he's always going to be 'little and cute' instead of 'big and magnificent'.

I always knew breeding with him was going to be a bit surprising, because his mum is a wild card. She produced in all 3 foals the nice legs, big chest and hind quaters I like, so I knew those characteristics would come through, but now I have to realize that there's pony in there, so its going to be even more surprising than I originally thought!

My first breeding of her was sentimental - I just didnt want her to be gone from me one day. Second breeding was experimental - no one expected her to produce real quality, and third breeding was purposeful, I knew what I was going to get if I combined the right bloodlines. He is exactly what I wanted, just a few hands short! What I was aiming for now that I had the physical down was temperement, as mum is high strung in a big way, and so is number one foal. Number two was a lot better, but he has a temper. My (little) stallion is the quietest horse Ive ever had the pleasure to handle. Always happy to see me and go to work or have a brush. He's on a little holiday right now, but Im going to finish breaking him in in a few weeks.

I'm planning on putting up a little photo gallery on my blog, I can let you know when its up.

It seems everyone gets mired down in the same classifications I did....Because of his hieght, he's a pony, but his breed classification would call him a horse....I dont think there's a real answer. You will see in the pics!
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1989
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This is pretty interesting, I am a huge pony fan. I am excited to see what this guy looks like. Really to answer your question like Diana said if he fits the pony qualifications then he is a pony. Some ponies look more horse like even though small and some look more pony type.
There is nothing wrong with breeding him IF he is what you want for your breeding program. But pass on him for a stallion if he isnt.
I am also thinking, it could be that the stallion you used is the one throwing the pony features as well as the height combined with the mare. Just a thought.
Looking forward to pics.
 

Kim Rose
Nursing Foal
Username: Kleonaptra

Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 10:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Holly,
Im a huge pony fan too....Its funny, the day I realized he wouldnt grow, and I was thinking....How do I feel about this? I recieved my copy of Australian Arabian in the mail, and the cover was Trincada Strike, my favourite arabian pony! Thats when I knew utterly that I was going to embrace it!

I really dont think it could be the sire. I chose him because generally, the silver family is matrilineal - all the 'silver' names go to girls. I adore the silver girls - Silver Dream, Silver Shadow, Silver sequin....They are all really big solid arab mares. Magic was the only stallion that had any silver blood in him, and when my boy was born chestnut (like his brothers) but with a big silver ring around the eyes (NOT like his brothers!) I exclaimed, "Oh my god he's gonna be silver!" I was so excited, yes, finally, after 6 years of work, I had a silver horse!

I had wanted a filly, and I was iffy for years about keeping him a stallion. I didnt really want a stallion. Still, Teshan cant have any more foals, and in him I have everything I want, so I didnt see how I could geld him. I started working with him every day to get his manners imprinted, and I was always waiting for the inevitable agression. It never came. Its much more a pony temperement than a horse one - cheeky rather than agressive.

I should be able to get some pics up on my blog on friday for you all. You will see what I mean. Even standing at 15.2hh I've always thought the dam had a pony face. Now Im looking for it, first foal (about 14.3hh) has a bit of a pony look. Second foal - the big 16hh fella - is ALL horse.

I'm not disappionted at all, but my big dream was to breed him to an andalusian mare - is he going to need a box to stand on?
 

Kim Rose
Nursing Foal
Username: Kleonaptra

Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi guys,
I have put up a quick gallery on my blog, find it at
http://www.kalikapsychosis.com/photo-gallery/

If the link doesnt work, you can search 'Orble' on google, and once there search my blog, 'kalikapsychosis' by 'kleonaptra' and its my most recent post.

More pics soon!
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 3183
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 10:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

aww, how sweet!!! (you are just a little bit crazy, aren't you??!!) LOL
 

Holly
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Bonny

Post Number: 1990
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 04:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like him, really though he doesnt look all that pony to me. I would consider him a small horse.
I didnt see pics of the dam, is she on there?
 

Kim Rose
Weanling
Username: Kleonaptra

Post Number: 21
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, April 14, 2010 - 09:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Dianna and Yep...Thats what they tell me! Its funny, he had to be weaned at 3 months - went through a fence and damaged his stifle, paid out heaps for x rays and treatment and he had to be confined for 3 weeks. When he finally got out I was rotating my yard with the big fella, and one day I thought, what the hell, I know its against everything Ive ever been told, but I'm going to put him in with his brother for company. They bonded so strongly - As you can see, they are still best buds to this day! If a mare was introduced I doubt he'd play nice, but the dynamic works perfectly right now. When he turned 2 I had to rearrange the whole property - My days are, lock the stallion in the side yard, let the geldings and the mare out then in the arvo switch them back over. I know no one will believe this, but its boss gelding that causes the trouble - the stallion never starts the fight. I truly believe that the stallion would live happily with the geldings if boss didnt always arc him up. We have 5 horses in total - The mare, her three babies (who arent babies now!) and mums gelding.

Hey, Holly. The dam is in the baby photos, the first two pics. I agree, the photo of him at 3, he looks like a small horse. At 3 I was still thinking he would grow big, and was buying 6ft rugs. I'll get some recent ones to put up and you'll see what I mean - he hasnt gotten any taller, and he's really solid like he grew out instead of up!



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