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Buckskin or Bay?

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Buckskin or Bay? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Deb Anderson
Yearling
Username: Bobs_mom

Post Number: 85
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We just had a AQHA filly last night that is either buckskin or bay. How do I tell the difference? I have a color coat genetics book from AQHA and it mainly stated a bay has the black agouti gene where a buckskin has the red gene. Is there any way to know without testing?

The stud is a golden buckskin (Red Buck Barcee) and has never thrown a sorrel (40+ mares of all colors and breeds). The mare is a sorrel. We paired the two together 2 years ago and got a super light palomino, which I thought was the red gene.

Thanks for your help.
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 2435
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congrats on the filly! Post some pics :-)
 

Deb Anderson
Yearling
Username: Bobs_mom

Post Number: 87
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 10:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is "Reba". She is feisty and independant already!! The first first photo is at 1 hour old and the sun is behind me starting to set. the second photo is this morning at 12 hours old.

[IMG]http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww5/BarceesObsession/Reba.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww5/BarceesObsession/Rebaindependant.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i700.photobucket.com/albums/ww5/BarceesObsession/rebatestingthewater.jpg[/IMG]

So - what do you think? Buckskin or bay?
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1445
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 12:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congrats! She is beautiful! I think you have yourself one of those "hard to tell" babies - but definately bay or buckskin. My GUESS would be bay, but I wouldn't count on it until she either gets older or your test her. If she is bay, I think she will be a very light color like a sandy bay.

http://www.unicornerfarm.com/bayhorse.htm

A buckskin is identical to a bay with the addition of the cream gene - they are both black based horses.

If you got a Palomino out of this stud before, he has to carry black and red. Mom only carries red, so filly has to be black/red, also. She got the Agouti, but that could have come from mom or dad (dad has it - mom can have it and it be hidden because she is a chestut).

Regardless, she is a beauty!
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1446
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Check your book again - I don't think it says a buckskin has a red base. Is it possible you were reading about a dun?
 

Deb Anderson
Yearling
Username: Bobs_mom

Post Number: 88
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Kathee, I reread the info. According to my book it states "the base color is a variation of diluted red after being affected by the cream dilution gene". But that the black points (Agouti gene) is identical to the bay. So.....the only difference is the cream gene??

Either way I am pleased with her. I would absolutely LOVE a buckskin as her sire is the most beautiful shiny gold I have ever seen. You can check him out at www.crquarterhorses.net He is Red Buck Barcee.

I am confused with the sire as we are friends with the owners and know he has only thrown palomino, bay and buckskin - no matter what color the mare is. He has not thrown a sorrel and has bred many. I know the red gene is part for palomino with a cream dilution. So does that mean he has at least one Aguoti gene and a cream gene?

Color genetics fasinate me and I love the color calculator website :-)
 

Andrea Barnes
Weanling
Username: Pf_pony

Post Number: 49
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since he has sired palominos, he has to be hetrozygous black meaning he carries both red and black genes Ee. He does have one agouti gene as he is buckskin. Unless he sires a black baby, there's no way to tell if he's homo or hetro for agouti without testing.
I think your filly will be bay. I also had a really hard to tell foal a bit lighter than yours even. I had her tested and she is bay.
Either way she's a love!
Congrats on the beautiful baby!
 

Andrea Barnes
Weanling
Username: Pf_pony

Post Number: 50
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also to add... It's interesting that he's never sired a chestnut foal. Since he's sired palominos he's definately got the possiblity because passing on his creme gene should only be 50/50.
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1449
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Angela is right with the chestnut percentage he should have chestnut foals about 25% of the time when bred to a CHESTUT.If he is not bred to a chestnut it changes the odds significantly - ie if he were bred to a smoky black that also carried red, he would only have a 6.25% chance of procuding a chestnut - same thing with being bred to a Palomino. He may not have been bred to may Chestnuts.

The sire is beautiful!
 

Deb Anderson
Yearling
Username: Bobs_mom

Post Number: 89
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info. That is why I am confused with his off spring. He should have some sorrels/chestnuts. I will ask the breeders again in case I was mistaken.
 

Deb Anderson
Yearling
Username: Bobs_mom

Post Number: 90
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 06:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I talked to the owner of the stallion this afternoon and to the best of their knowledge he has not thrown a sorrel/chestnut foal. They are not large breeders, they stand 3 studs and breed 30 - 40 outside mares/year. This is Barcees third foal crop.

Oh - no blacks either, so he must be heterozygous for the balck gene

Hoping, hoping for Reba to be Buckskin.........:-)
 

Heather
Weanling
Username: Lilredbuck

Post Number: 50
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i would say bay. she's very cute! love the red buck horses. i have two fillies by a perlino stallion who's a son of two eyed red buck. one palomino and a buckskin. mom of the buckskin is double bred two eyed jack and jackie bee
 

Diane Loveday
Breeding Stock
Username: Dianeluv

Post Number: 179
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Kathee, I am wondering about my filly. She is a paint.Her coat color is sorrel but her skin beneath this is black. she is staring to shed and has these very dark patches. Although her mane and tail are white her forelock and tip of her tail are black. Tips of her ears are black. Her muzzle is black. Interestingly enough the bottom of her vulva is black also. (I'll have to take a picture, it's very amusing)

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk90/grandsons3/IMG_8373.jpg
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1450
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 08:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diane - do you have a close up where I can see her ears? She has so much white that any black on the legs would not be presented. Since she has white around her tail, that could mask the black tail - but I see the black at the end. Her mane is the same story - looks like the forelock is black. I would like to see if her ears have black rims. I don't think she is a sorrel. She looks like a tri colored paint - bay with the paint gene. Usually there is not as much white (or in those spots) and the black points are more obvious.
She is very impressive!
 

Diane Loveday
Breeding Stock
Username: Dianeluv

Post Number: 180
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tha ks Kathee, here are a couple more pictures. Her ears are black rimmed. Except where the white has covered 1/2 of the left one.

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk90/grandsons3/IMG_8376_edited.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk90/grandsons3/IMG_1241_edited.jpg
http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk90/grandsons3/IMG_1246_edited.jpg
 

Kathee McGuire
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 1451
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2009 - 10:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She is absolutely a bay paint!!! You may see some black on her front legs when she gets older.

Look at the legs of this mare and you will see what I am talking about with the black. http://image4.equinenow.com/109995_1/filly_horse.jpg

She is really well marked! You were very lucky on this.
 

Heather
Yearling
Username: Lilredbuck

Post Number: 53
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 01:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She is a doll! love the markings, I would have to say bay as well.
 

Diane Loveday
Breeding Stock
Username: Dianeluv

Post Number: 181
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 08:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks again. I am sending her registration papers in and am calling her a bay, I hope the APHA agrees. I think she is awesome but I am a little prejudiced...
 

Deb Anderson
Yearling
Username: Bobs_mom

Post Number: 95
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well - I think she is a Bay. I found a color website and the foal they have pictured as a bay looks exactly like Reba.
 

Heather
Yearling
Username: Lilredbuck

Post Number: 60
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2009 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

not at all Diane. she is awesome! i love her markings, very uniqe! she's a beautifull baby, and I'm sure will be a beautifull mare when she gets older. should be a real head turner inthe show pen or where ever she is.
 

Deb Anderson
Yearling
Username: Bobs_mom

Post Number: 99
Registered: 12-2008
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 03:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather, I would love to see photos of your babies out of the Red Buck line. If you go FAR back in Jessie (Miss Sassy Obsession) breeding - she has Jackie Bee also.

The farm that has the stud we bred to - CR Quarter horses are HUGE fans of Jackie Bee and most of their original stock go back to that line. They recently introduced the Two Eye Red Buck line into the herd. If you are interested their website is www.crquarterhorses.net

Where are you located? would love to chat more - maybe exchange email address?
 

Heather
Yearling
Username: Lilredbuck

Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2009
Posted on Friday, May 22, 2009 - 04:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ABSOLUTLEY! I'M IN AZ. WHERE ARE YOU? YOU CAN EMAIL ME DIRECTLY AT lilredbuck@yahoo.com
I WILL TRY TO GET SOME PICS OF THEM ON HERE BEFORE I LEAVE FOR THE WEEKEND.



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