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Palomino vs grey

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Palomino vs grey « Previous Next »


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Jean (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 128.244.81.201
Posted on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry if this has been repeated else where...I am thinking about buying a filly whose dam is cremello and sire is chestnut. The filly was born a nice golden color with a light mane/tail - your expected palomino. But she has now begun to shed out and is turning what looks like a steel grey color with white hairs on her face and her mane/tail is starting to look silver-ish. The dam's parents are a grey and a dun. I know there is a 50/50 chance of the filly's dam inheriting the grey gene from her dam. My question really is why this filly looks to be turning grey when the dam has no visible grey. Is it that since the base color red is diluted (twice) the grey is there but is white? Oh, this is the dam's first foal so I don't have any others to compare it to. The dam is being DNAed so I would think that holds the answer but my final decision has to be made before the results are back. Thanks for any insight.
 

arablvr31
Neonate
Username: Arablvr31

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 02:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Chances are she's just a very light palomino. some palomino's fade to be almost white after they shed out. If the sire and dam aren't gray, the filly can't be gray. A friend of mine has a very light palomino, she gets asked a lot if the mare is cremello, she's not, just very light.
 

Renee Clover
Neonate
Username: Reneec

Post Number: 7
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, July 15, 2005 - 12:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jean,
How old is the filly? Sometimes, Palominos will lose their colour when they are young (losing their baby coat) and as they mature they get their golden colour back. This may be what is happening with your filly. But as arablvr31 said, if her parents arent grey, then she cant be.
Let us know how she turns out. Do you have a pic of her you could send?
Renee
 

Sandy D
Yearling
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 82
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 01:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Considering the filly's dam is a cremello, she could indeed be a gray and you just cannot see it due to the double dilution. A cremello looks white anyway, so there is no way visibly to tell whether they have "greyed out."
You also said that the dam's parents are a grey and a dun. What was the base coat color of the grey? What it a diluted horse? If not, then the dam of this filly is not a cremello, but a grey.
 

Jean (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.12.116.13
Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 11:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Renee

The filly is 2 1/2 months old. Her dam is registered as cremello but has a grey in each of the last three generations. Yes, I have a picture but don't know how to send it.

Thanks - Jean
 

Jean (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.12.116.13
Posted on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 11:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sandy

I mis-typed. The dam's parents are actually palomino and grey. The grey's parents were the dun and grey (my bad). I don't have the pedigree in front of me right now - I can provide the dam's background (at least as much as I have) tomorrow. I'm not really sure what the color base would be. While it is possible that the dam didn't inherit the grey gene I had not ever seen/heard of a supposed palomino foal shedding out to a steely grey color. The dam is being DNAed so wouldn't that provide the definitive answer on her? I suspect the filly's owner will DNA her so he knows as well.

Thanks - Jean
 

Sandy D
Yearling
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 83
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 04:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jean,
You would have to see a picture of the cremello mare at birth to determine whether she was born a cremello, or turned grey with age. There are cremellos that are also carrying the greying gene and since they are also carrying a double dose of cream, it's going to be really hard to tell whether or not the cremello did grey out.
Now, you say that the filly is shedding out to a steely gray color, a horse with the greying gene will actually turn white with age, not an actual gray color. A palomino, whether light or dark will always shine a golden color. Now, there is the possibility that she could turn out to be a smutty palomino and the dark hairs now coming out is the result of the smutty gene. Is the chestnut parent a bright red chestnut or a liver chestnut? Liver chestnut bred to cremello has a higher chance of producing the smutty palomino.
As for the DNA test on the dam, it will be difinitive if they are specifically testing for the greying gene. If she does have the greying gene, then she is indeed a grey. And her grey parent would have had to also have a cream gene in order for the dam to be a cremello.
I really wish that the registries would start stating the base coat colors of horses who are also grey. For instance it could read something like "chestnut/grey". It really makes it difficult for breeders to determine coat colors when a horse is just listed as a grey and there is no information available as to what color the horse was when born.
 

Sandy D
Yearling
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 84
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 04:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh, I forgot to mention that a horse who is greying out will start to get what look like white goggles around their eyes as they turn grey. That is usually the first indicator that a horse is turning grey.
 

Jean (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 128.244.81.201
Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 07:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sandy,
I have no picture of the cremello mare at birth. The picture I have of the stallion is not real good but he appears to be a bright red chestnut. I do have a picture of the filly but don't know how to post/send it (and not sure if it will help or not).
I have a grey arab/QH cross who was born chestnut and is now a flea bitten grey at 11. I've had her since she was 15 mo old. She actually went through several shades of grey over the years until she turned white and now is flea bitten.
I agree 100% about the registries. It would make things much easier - maybe someday. Thanks for all your time.



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