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Encantador//very unusual color for a PRE

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Encantador//very unusual color for a PRE « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Terry Waechter P.R.E. foals
Breeding Stock
Username: Watchman

Post Number: 465
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 09:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I wanted to share pictures of one of my colts.

Chestnut is a very rare color among P.R.E. horses. Here is a colt born chestnut but going gray....his genetic is eeAaGg...which means he carries chestnut, black and bay and is heterozygous gray. This combination makes him a very interesting breeding prospect. He will give every foal at least one chestnut gene (e)
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/P1010076.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/P1010078.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/Runtogether.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/P1000912.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/Colt4.jpg[/IMG]
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 2020
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 11:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He's awesome, Terry, and still one of my favorites....have you decided against selling him??
*I HOPE*
 

Andrea Barnes
Neonate
Username: Pf_pony

Post Number: 4
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Thursday, March 12, 2009 - 06:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Why is chesnut rare in PREs? Is it because grey covers it up?
I'm still trying to wrap my head around colors, so bear with me.
A foal gets a color gene from each parent. Yours got e from dad and e from mom...
How do you know mom and dad aren't chestnut under grey ( at least one is grey right?)
Black horses are either Ee or EE. EE with agouti would be bay.
I guess I'm not sure why ee is rare in PREs as compared to other breeds that have the same basic colors.
Thanks for being patient!
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 334
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Friday, March 13, 2009 - 09:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Andrea you are right about the black gene. If he had it he would be black.
He is very nice.

(Message edited by Cathy on March 13, 2009)
 

Terry Waechter P.R.E. foals
Breeding Stock
Username: Watchman

Post Number: 469
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, March 13, 2009 - 10:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

For years the Stud Book did not accept Chestnuts so they became rare. Now that they are accepted, they are appearing and sell for very high prices. Gray is caused by a gene but covers up the actual genetic color of the horse so it is important to do genetic testing for the true color of any gray horse. Soon this colt will be nearly white and it may be hard to "look and see" chestnut coloring. One of his parents is a bay EeAA or EeAa and his mother is gray...EeAa or EeAA....one of them must be Aa since he is Aa.
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 335
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry A is not the black gene it is the agouti gene that can be carried by chestnut and has no effect on that color. E is the black gene.
My palomino stallion is Aa which is nice because he can and has thrown bay and buckskins from black mares.
 

Dee Jay
Breeding Stock
Username: Djscoloredcorral

Post Number: 157
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

couldnt the grey mom also be aa instead of Aa? My bay mare is EeAA, homozygous for Agouti, so never will get any black bodied foals from her. Her first foal was a bay, second a buckskin and third a buckskin.

On a palomino or chestnut, AA wouldnt show as the horse has to have black for the agouti gene to limit it to the points. It would only be on successive breedings that the owner could assume that the mare was AA for agouti if she never had a black bodied foal no matter whether the sire of the foal was black, bay, smokey black etc.

ee is chestnut
Ee is black, bay
EE is homozygous black
then add in the Cr for dilute palomino, buckskin etc
and CrCr for double dilute such as perlino and cremello

Now there are more genetic markers for silver and champagne with more to come

D
 

Beth
Breeding Stock
Username: Beth13

Post Number: 109
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, April 15, 2009 - 08:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Since chestnut is recessive, wouldn't both the sire and dam of this colt have to carry ee? I thought the way it worked, black is dominant, so you only need to have 1 parent that is black or carries black to get a black and because chestnut is recessive you need 2 genes to get a chestnut. If this is right, both the parents carry the gene for chestnut.
This could also explain the lack of chestnuts in PRE's- not enough blacks and bays carry the chestnut gene for it to be expressed.
Example- one lady here, Tracy Smith, breed a chestnut out of two bays.
 

Ad TB
Breeding Stock
Username: Ajvtbs

Post Number: 501
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 - 06:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry, He's amazing, a really handsome colt. I know nothing about colour testing it's not done in the Thoroughbred world. In the last two years however I have had a chestnut filly who's dam and sire were both bay. The mares sire was black but her dam was chestnut. The stallions sire was bay but his dam was chestnut.
A chestnut colt out of a bay mare and a bay stallion. The mares dam was bay and sire was chestnut. The stallions dam was chestnut and sire was bay.

This is the one that confuses me..A chestnut filly out of a bay mare and bay sire. The mares dam and sire were both bay and the stallions dam and sire were both bay also. The mares granddams were bay and bay and her grandsires were grey and bay. The stallions granddams were bay and bay and grandsires were bay and bay. I can not find any chestnut in the pedigree for generations. I really don't know where it came from!
 

Andrea Barnes
Weanling
Username: Pf_pony

Post Number: 33
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 12:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Beth has got it.
AD. Your mare and stallion would be Ee and Ee. All it takes is for one each e to get passed on to the foal and you got your chestnut. Since agouti only affects black your filly could still carry it.
You had a 25% chance of getting a chestnut I think.



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