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Question for all you color gurus!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Question for all you color gurus! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Robin
Neonate
Username: 1horselady

Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 01:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare is due in 11 weeks and I am getting so excited about what we are going to get. Her sire has some interesting color markings and I don’t know if there are relevant or not in determining what color the foal might be.

Sire – Dark Bay with 4 socks and blaze. Socks have black dots around the cornet band and fetlock about 1 inch in diameter.

Sires Dam – dark bay with high white socks and has a large 1 foot x 1 foot white patch on her belly. One would think she was paint, but she is full dutch warmblood for the past 7 generations, no paint in her at all nor does she have Art Decko (paint warmblood) in her .

Dam’s Sire on dam side– True Black

Sires Dad – True Black

My mare is a dark bay with no white.
Her dam was a chestnut and her sire was a true black she was out of a 3 generations of bays

So would my chances on getting a chestnut be low?
Does those black spots on the Sires legs mean anything.

The only think I know is that the Sires Dam produces only bay and black with tons of chrome on each.

I really would prefer not to have a chestnut and getting a black would be awesome. Anyone know my chances?
If it helps you can see the pedigree of my mare with the pedigree colors here:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/queen+of+de+nile

and here is the Stallion:
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/versache3
 

Dee Jay
Nursing Foal
Username: Djscoloredcorral

Post Number: 14
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 02:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Robin:

Out of two bays, your foal will likely also be a bay.

Here is a link to a coat color calculator. You can type in the colors of your mare and sire, and play with it. It is more accurate if the sire and mare have been genetically tested for red and black genes, but the general rule for bay is, two bays = a bay foal.

http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp



deejay
 

Dee Jay
Nursing Foal
Username: Djscoloredcorral

Post Number: 15
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Thursday, January 08, 2009 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

oops forgot to add:

If your mare and the sire of this impending foal have a true black (homozygous black parent), then your chances of a chestnut foal would be 25% and a black would be about 5%. Bay is still your big percentage at 70%
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 271
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 05:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I used the color calculator when my mare was pregnant, it is fun. With two bay parents there was a very high chance of the foal being bay, and I think a 2% of being chesnut and a 2% of black.Well, I got a black foal!!. So Robin no matter what your chances are you will really know when the mare foals, and even stil you may have to wait until the baby sheds or even do a DNA color test. Good luck with foaling and let us know!
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 272
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 05:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not very knowledgeable about colour but I think the white markings are caused by the sabino gene and I don´t know how that gene "behaves". I have no idea about the black markings.
Robin, the stallion has an awsome pedigree, I bit you will have a great foal, no matter what colour s/he is.
 

Diane Loveday
Weanling
Username: Dianeluv

Post Number: 40
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Could anyone explain to me how you can get a Bay out of a Paint if all their legs are white? I find this to be very confusing. My breeder told me my mare who is black and white (and I mean mostly white) is a Bay??? All four legs are white. She does have some black in her tail, some in her mane, ears and face are black with a white blaze on her face. She is registered as a Tobiano.
What do you think??
 

Dee Jay
Weanling
Username: Djscoloredcorral

Post Number: 34
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diane:

My mare is a bay tobiano paint. Her legs are white up past her knees, plus she has white on her back like someone poured a gallon of paint on her. She has a black tail, black mane and black tips on her ears. SHe also has some black spots on her coronet bands but is otherwise bay colored.

Her first foal out of a chestnut sire with a flaxen mane and tail was a bay tobiano filly with almost completely black legs and a big patch of white like a hankee draped over her neck

Her second foal out of a buckskin tobiano sire was a loud buckskin tobiano filly

Her third foal out of a perlino tobiano was a minimal buckskin tobiano colt.

THe paint coloring (white) hides the black of her legs.

you can see all these horses on my website

www.djscoloredcorral.com

my bay mare is on the mares link
the fillies and colt are on the foals link
and my perlino stud has his own link.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1778
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, January 14, 2009 - 10:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diane, breeding paint is alot like breeding appy....there are base coat colors, and the white is just a "bonus". Many horses with white legs have black skin and hooves underneath it. Bay doesn't have to mean they have black legs, mane and tail.....it is simply the color of the red that shows on your mare. Even if she has one patch of bay, and the rest of her white, she's considered a bay ....strange, i know....
 

mariana cremonte
Breeding Stock
Username: Mariana_cremonte

Post Number: 273
Registered: 05-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diane, you may want to check one of these links, they have pretty good descriptions and pictures of what Diana is telling you.

http://www.rainbowmorganhorseassoc.com/index/base_colors.html

http://www.equinecolor.com/color.html

good luck!
 

Diane Loveday
Weanling
Username: Dianeluv

Post Number: 41
Registered: 07-2007
Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the explanation. I understand how the white can "hide" the black that could be on her legs. Next question, does the sire or damm determine the "white" pattern or is it a combination of their genes?

Dee Jay your Paints are quite beautiful. Of Course I pray first for health and good confirmation but the beauty of the Paint Horse just takes my breath away.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1785
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Saturday, January 17, 2009 - 08:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good question Diane! I am suspect it is both, and as you know you can get a colored baby even if only one parent is paint......
 

Dee Jay
Weanling
Username: Djscoloredcorral

Post Number: 35
Registered: 01-2009
Posted on Sunday, January 18, 2009 - 11:01 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Diane. I have to admit that a horse without white on it, is just a horse haha.. I have always loved and bred paints. Homozygous paints to be sure I get color. Im pretty happy with my mares and I have sold the stallion to Australia, so hes going to make a pretty big splash across the ocean for sure !
 

Lynn Bellus
Breeding Stock
Username: Lorilynfarms

Post Number: 122
Registered: 02-2009
Posted on Saturday, March 21, 2009 - 01:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those tiny black spots above the coronet band are called ermine spots. I believe there is a whole registry trying to reproduce those spots religiously. I haven't kept up with them for over ten years, so I don't know how it's going, but at least you can search "ermine spots".



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