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Color possibilities for '09 foal

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Color possibilities for '09 foal « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Baraaks_Storm
Neonate
Username: Baraaks_storm

Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 05:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I finially have a foal on the way for 2009. The resulting foal will be a half arabian half quarter horse and will be my Arabian stallion's second foal. His first will be an April baby by a Holsteiner mare.

Sorry I'm just excited for my boy.

Anywho the stallion is a Bay Minimal Sabino (he has not been tested but his color patters show he is) The mare is a sorrel.

granddad (Dark Bay)
Sire (light Bay w/ black points and sabino)
grandma (light Bay)

grandpa (Sorrel)
Dam (sorrel)
grandmom (black)

What are the possible foal colors? I tried the coat color site, but I don't understand much about all the color options.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 863
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, August 31, 2008 - 11:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ooh, emily west is good at this....i'll bet shell know! I'm betting on sorrel though...possibly sabino.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 784
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana, you are too funny. :-)

Baraaks Storm,
As far as color goes you have three possibilities. Sorrel, Bay, and Black. Seeing your stallion came from two bays not only is there a chance of him being Homozygous for black but also for agouti,( agouti is the gene that restricts black to the points of the body aka bay). Without getting him tested you won't know for sure.
Also the mare may carry one copy of agouti as sorrel horses can carry it with out showing because they have no black gene.
So here is what you will get depending on the different unknowns.

Stallion Heterozygous Black, Heterozygous Agouti
Dam Non Agouti

50% Sorrel
25% Bay
25% Black

Stallion Heterozygous Black, Heterozygous Agouti
Dam Heterozygous Agouti,

50% Sorrel
37.5% Bay
12.5% Black

Stallion Homozygous Agouti Heterzygous Black
Dam either Heterzygous Agouti or non Agouti,
50% Sorrel
50% Bay

Stallion Homozygous Black and Agouti
Dam either,

100% Bay

Stallion Homozygous Black Heterozygous Agouti
Dam Non Agouti,

50% Bay
50% Black

Stallion Homozygous Black Heterozygous Agouti
Dam Heterozygous Agouti,

75% Bay
25% Black

Then assuming that your stallion is the only one with Sabino divide all of the above options in half. Example:

75% Bay
25% Black now would be

37.5% Bay
37.5% Bay Sabino
12.5% Black
12.5% Black Sabino

Hope this helps you out.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 785
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 10:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Also you could get your stallion tested. This will take out some of the guess work when breeding him to different mares. Animal Genetics Lab does the tests from $25-$30 dollars depending on the test. Very reasonable in my opinion.
Here is their website.
http://www.animalgenetics.us/index.htm
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 865
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep, i knew she'd be the one to ask! emily, you're a color guru.....LOL
 

Baraaks_Storm
Neonate
Username: Baraaks_storm

Post Number: 10
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2008 - 06:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks a lot for the help! I love and hate the guessing game. LOL
 

Chris Taylor
Neonate
Username: Galaxy

Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our latest foal born last week really surprised us. He was due on Christmas Day but was born on the 17th at 332 days. Dam & second dam both bay, sire Bay Tobiano, second sire chestnut tobiano. Foal was a chestnut tobiano colt, just what we wanted despite only being a 3% chance on the colour calculator with a limited amount of info to upload. Another chestnut pinto colt born to a chestnut mum by the same sire has virtually identical markings to our little guy.
Merry Christmas to everyone from us in New Zealand (small country in the South Pacific next t Australia)
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1626
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Tuesday, December 23, 2008 - 01:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Chris, that's great news ! I'm glad you beat the odds, and got what you were hoping for.

Merry Christmas to you from the United States!
 

Beth
Breeding Stock
Username: Beth13

Post Number: 107
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Wednesday, December 24, 2008 - 12:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Congrats to you Chris! I love tobianos. Don't have one yet, - I'm working on it though.

Oh Emily, just to make sure I've got it all summed up...Baraaks Storm's foal. Since the sire is untested, basically chestnut(sorrel) bay, black and brown are the options, with the foal having a 50/50 chance of being sabino.

Merry Christmas from Australia everyone!
 

Michelle Bee
Breeding Stock
Username: Michellej

Post Number: 283
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 07:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Colour Gurus; Diana and Emily, could I ask you a 'hypothetical', please?
I breed TB's so colour has never been an important factor at my place. LOL
My Appy mare foaled a lovely filly, sired by my chestnut TB, a few days ago and she is chestnut, as Diana predicted. No problem with her lack of 'spots' as she has nice conformation which was my main concern, and has a very delicate, pretty face.:-)

However, I have developed an interest in colour genetics. I'm not intending to rebreed her, buuuutttt, I also own a bay TB rising 3 yr old colt and I'm wondering if you'd be kind enough give me the 'odds' on foal colouring IF I was to breed Savvy to the bay.
Savvy: near leopard spot ( some 'flea bitten' areas). NO info re her breeding.

My colt:
Bay
Dam: dark bay
Sire: dark brown

Grand Dam ( mare line) Chestnut
from chestnut dam by chestnut sire

Grand sire (sire line) bay
from bay dam by bay sire

Basically, would this pairing be likely to produce a foal with any Appy colour characteristics?

If unlikely, I'll stick to TB's (and possibly look for an Appy sire should I ever decide to breed this sweet mare again) :-)

Thanks in advance!

Happy New Year from Down Under
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1664
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, your best bets are for a bay (which is most likely)....Next is chestnut again, then there's a tiny, oh tiny chance you might get a black. Whether or not you'll get appy color is a crap shoot breeding to a non appy parent. There are particular coat patterns in appies that throw more color than others. Sav is a heterozygous coat pattern, which means with a non appy stud, you've got about a 25%chance of getting appy characteristics. Here's a link to a great site...check it out!
http://www.reining-appaloosa.com/PuzzleWorthSolving.htm
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1666
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Michelle, keep in mind, that when I say "appy characteristics" I mean mottling, striped hooves, and sclera around the eyes. Any color you get in addition to that is only BONUS! LOL If you truly want an appy baby from Sav, I'd breed her to a true few spot stallion.
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1667
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One more point to mention.....just FYI (and totally opinionated LOL) A solid baby with striped hooves, sclera, and mottling and no appy spots is NOT a pretty horse! LOL
 

Michelle Bee
Breeding Stock
Username: Michellej

Post Number: 284
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL Diana !!! Thanks for the info. You have confirmed my(limited) understanding of this. I'm on the page now:-) I'll stick with my TB's and be very pleased that the filly we have from Sav is pretty!! Fortunately she has NO Appy characteristics at all and looks, at this early stage, like a little replica of her TB sire!!!!
 

Diana Gilger
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 1671
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She is very beautiful! And you're very fortunate!
 

Michelle Bee
Breeding Stock
Username: Michellej

Post Number: 285
Registered: 11-2008
Posted on Sunday, December 28, 2008 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you - I'm just beginning to realise HOW fortunate!! :-)
The link you supplied is excellent, I'm just reading it now. It is far more complex than the simple human genetics ( like predicting eye colour) that I'm familiar with, is!!!
 

Baraaks_Storm
Weanling
Username: Baraaks_storm

Post Number: 24
Registered: 07-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 02:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the help, the filly was born June 25 2009 and is a bay with a star. Funny as her momma is a sorrel with 2 back socks and a star that bleeds while the daddy is a bay with 2 front partial stockings a back sock and a back partial triangle and a stripe with sabino markings. lol, for all the color this foal could have had she ended up being her beautiful self anyways...



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