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Help me understand genetics black gene, homozygous??

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Help me understand genetics black gene, homozygous?? « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Darcie OAkley
Neonate
Username: Circle_a

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 03:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a beautiful 2 y/o black and white paint stallion. He is wonderful I would like to see what he could produce later if he has the complete package. He is out of my sorrel with roaning AQHA mare with lots of sorrel and dun back ground. The sire is a UC Davis tested Homozygous Tobiano / Homozygous Black.

I have a very well bred bay roan tobiano mare out of a tested homozygous tobiano stallion and a solid red dun mare. I would like to breed the 2 in the future.

What are my chances of color? Could my stallion throw color with a solid mare? Will my stallion throw red? Should I have him tested or would it be a waste? I have bred quarter horses on and off for years but know nothing about paints someone please help me understand. I can email pictures and more info just ask. Thank you so much for your time help.
 

judy cervantes/chenoa born 3/30/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Judy1

Post Number: 512
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darcie,do you know about the color calculator??
http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator3.asp. Hope this helps you.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 781
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Darcie, I am not sure what you would want to test him for,( other then OLWS and other genetic disorders). Based on his color and who his parents are he would be:

aa( Non Agouti).
TOto ( Heterozygous Tobiano)
Ee ( Heterozygous Black)

So unless you have a reason to doubt he really is black I wouldn't see the need to test.
To answer your questions. On solid colored mares you will get 50% tobiano. With your tobiano mare you will have a 25% solid, 25% Homozygous tobiano, and 50% heterozygous tobiano foals. So a total of 75% tobiano.
The color calculator Judy gave you is an excellent source of knowledge and fun. Play around with it and you should have a good idea of what you will get. Good luck!! Oh, and pictures are always a good thing if you would like to share. :-)
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 858
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, Emily you really know your stuff where paints are concerned!!! Know anything about appaloosa predictions? Better yet....what's your guess on breeding a homozygous tobiano mare(who is a bay, but has had black foals when bred to black stallions...and as a matter of fact, she's had many black and sorrel babies...but never a bay)to a black leopard appaloosa stallion who has thrown black babies every time (even bred to bay, sorrel, and roan)? His entire pedigree is a homozygous black stallion bred to a black leopard mare for several generations...
I know that typically, when you breed black to bay you get bay....but I think it's about a 50/50 that I might get black and now I wonder what the possibility is of getting something with a tobiano pattern and appy spots!? That'd sure be nice! I'm rambling on......just excited for 09 already!
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 783
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, August 29, 2008 - 12:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana,
I really don't know much about appy genes but my guess would be they act the way most Paint genes would. That would mean when breeding to your homozygous tobiano mare you would have 50% chance of tobiano and a 50% chance of a tobi/leopard.
Based on what you have said about your mare she only carries one agouti gene and one black gene. It very well could be that the times she has passed on her agouti is when she has had sorrel foals so there is no black gene in the babies to show they carry agouti. Do you have pictures of your mare and stallion? I would love to see them.

If your stallion is homozygous black like it sounds then your chances would be as follows.

25% Black Tobiano
25% Black Tobiano/Leopard
25% Bay Tobiano
25% Bay Tobiano/Leopard

Is your mare a dark bay? Or is she a bright/red bay. I ask because if she is really dark it is possible that she is fading black and that is why no bay babies????

I understand being excited about the 09 season. Only I don't have any babies due. :-( Although there is a chance that we may have puppies next year out of our registered Border Collie.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 860
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, August 29, 2008 - 05:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Emily, you kind of think the same way I do....I was hoping you'd say that. Whereas, there is no way to know where the appy patterning will fall into play, the black vs bay predictions should remain the same. (just patterns changing)
Here are the pics!
[IMG]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/kdgilger/Candyat16.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/kdgilger/DSC01462.jpg[/IMG]



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