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New Pictures of Zita and Color Questions/Opinions :-)...

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » New Pictures of Zita and Color Questions/Opinions :-) « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 728
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 05:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi there everybody!!! Zita is almost 10 weeks old now and it has been awhile since I have posted any updated pictures so I thought I would share some.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/ZitaJ.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/ZitaJ1.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/ZitaJ3.jpg

Zita has some small spots on her one side that I think might be paw prints or cat prints. I plan on having her tested to see if she is Homozygous for tobiano but just thought I would see what you all thought. When she was first born I could see maybe three. More keep appearing and she now has about ten. Not all are visible in the picture and she does have some mud on her too. :-)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/ZitaJ4.jpg

Also I have wondered if Gracie might have the Sabino gene. I understand that it is often one of the most missed genes because it can be so minimal and with her being a Paint she has a lot of white anyway. She has a very wide white blaze/face on her one side, lots of white hairs mixed in with her sorrel, and jagged spots. She is mostly Quarter horse and all the Paints in her pedigree are tobianos and can be traced to "Paint Mare" who must have carried the tobiano gene because that is where it all starts. So my question is based on these pictures should I bother testing her to see if she does have the Sabino gene or if you wouldn't waste the money because you don't think it is possible or it doesn't look like she might.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/GracieJ.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/GracieJ1.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/GracieJ3.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/GracieJ4.jpg

Her Face
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/GracieJ2.jpg

And Zita has the Same Face
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/ZitaJ2.jpg
 

Kim Peavy/Blk&White Pinto Colt 6/16
Breeding Stock
Username: Lovemysinbad

Post Number: 233
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 07:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Emily: Beautiful pix and horses. They look so much alike and seem very happy....keep pix coming, I can't wait for my guy to fill out Kim
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 729
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 07:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you, Kim!!! Your little fellow is so handsome. I look forward to seeing pictures of him as he gets bigger too!!!
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1535
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mare and foal are such a pretty pair, it's amazing how much they look alike. Pretty pretty!!
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 979
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Emily. I was about to start a new thread also on the same subject. I think my filly also has some Sabino chareristics also. Her dad is homozygous for tobiano and her mom is a b/s overo. I did some research today on it here is a link you might find helpful http://www.coloredhorses.com/PP2new.html "Sabino (Sah-BEE-no) is a white spotting pattern that is usually included with Frame and Splash and given the generic name, Overo. This is because it displays pattern characteristics which can be very similar to either of these patterns. Another very common characteristic of Sabino is white on the lower lip and/or chin, ranging from small to large." I got this info from here http://www.equinecolor.com/sabino.html. My filly has this white on her lower lip http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/100_0322.jpg http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0521081927.jpg http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0418081921a.jpg . This is one of her belly spot, which I don't think is a tobiano trait, do you? http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0411080838c.jpg http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0422080926b.jpg Here is another trait of Splash or Sabino looking horses. A facial marking as small as a snip or strip can be an indicatior of Splash or Sabino. Here is Jetta's snip http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0605081922b.jpg Jetta also is getting Ermine spots http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0616081955.jpg http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0616081951.jpg Emily is Zita's dad a homozygous tobiano? I think Zita's mom could be a Sabino and possibly homozygous for tobiano because of her Ink Spots. What do you think about Jetta? Do you think she could be a Sabino too? One other weird thing about Jetta that is considered rare for tobianos, is that her front right leg is going to be dark all the way to her fetlock. This has got to be because of the overo trait, right?
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 730
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Marilyn, Thanks!!! Everyone thinks they look so much a like. :-)
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 731
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 10:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlene,
Thanks for the links!! Years ago before I knew how you got a homozygous tobiano I thought maybe Gracie was too because of her spotting. But she is out of a Quarter horse so obviously she isn't. :-) Zita's sire is so she does have a 50% chance of being homozygous also which would be realy cool!!

I absolutely love Paints and I get the difference between the patterns but once you start mixing them up it can be hard to tell what they have. Gracie's lower lip is white too like you mentioned Jetta has. About her belly spot, I really don't know. Our tobiano gelding has one too but he is out of the same stud as Gracie so it is possible that he could carry sabino.
Here is his picture. You can't see his belly spot in it. He is a minimal tobiano and has a white rump, that belly spot, and couple other small white patches. Interestingly enough I think he also has the lower white lip, hmmmm. :-)

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/Scanjake.jpg

I think there are exceptions to all the pattern rules. So although what we are seeing could indicate that they have sabino or other overo characteristics you never know. I will probably get Gracie tested I just don't have the money right now. Well I would for one test but I need to do OLWS, agouti, and sabino on Gracie and tobiano and OLWS on Zita. That will run me somewhere between $150-200 dollars. And then of course if I find Gracie does carry Sabino then I will want to test Zita. :-)
One thing that makes me wonder about Gracie too is that her spots don't have the even rounded look that they say tobianos have. Like the way they are in this picture I posted above.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/GracieJ4.jpg

Once I get the testing done I will let everyone know. But it could be awhile. :-)
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 980
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2008 - 11:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your welcome! I also am going to test my mare for OLWS, Red Factor, Agouti, HERDA, and mabey Sabino. I think there is a good chance Gracie is Sabino
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 733
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 09:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh yes, HERDA. Is that the disease that comes through King/Poco Beuno bloodlines or am I thinking of something else? I haven't yet done much research on it. Add one more test to the list!! :-)
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 473
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 11:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Guys...I just thought I'd jump here with my fellow paint buds.

I enjoyed your link Charlene. So much that I sent the author a clarification question.

You asked about the belly spot with your picture. I wish I could tell you that it was a definitive Tobiano trait but here's my confusion. My foal with the two belly spots is a Overo/Tobiano mix and they look very similar to yours...hahahaha. APHA is telling me that these spots are considered "Overo" markings...so go figure.

I also noticed in your link that they state that Overos-Frame Overos RARELY have mixed colored tails. That was the question I emailed them with. Both my foals, including the complete solid foal, have white/base colored tails. Not just a few little hairs but the base color of their coats and the white is predominately mixed. Makes me kinda say....hmmmmm. In fact, with Moose, the mixed tail and the mottled/dual colored skin on his face and groin are the ONLY signs that he has any paint breeding.

The article states that mixed tails are very rare in Overo breedings. With Moose, we know that there is only solid and frame overo. With JJ I can explain away the dual colored tail with the Tobiano & Overo cross. It just seems a bit odd that both foals have the same tail mixture heritage.

By the way....everyone's babies look so great! Mine are getting sooooo big. JJ is almost as tall as his mom...really...no kidding...hahaha! He caught up in height to little Thoroughbred cross Moose! I thought he would remain a bit smaller and just more muscled but he has surprised me as he continues to grow up and out. He's quite stunning...too bad he's just a little onery turd. He's giving me a run for my money having to stay on him for discipline! Hahaha!
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 981
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, that's the one. Baby has Poco Bueno from her dam's side. I was thinking about what tests I was going to get done again last night, and I think I would be waisting my money on the Agouti test for my mare. She is a Bay dun, so obviously she carries the agouti gene. Her dad was a red dun, so she couldn't be homozygous for bay right? I took another pic this morning of an unusual marking on Jetta relating to the Sabino gene, I think? Tell me what you think Emily... http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0618080839.jpg http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa97/mollytomale-photos/0618080839a.jpg Also do you think I should get Jetta tested to see if she could be homozygous black? Her dad is homo for the black, and her mom is essiently a black with the Agouti gene right?
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 982
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Bobbi. Good of you to join us lol. I'll be curious as to their answer to your question. Which link were you referring to? The equinecolor.com is my favorite one. I would love to see some recent pics of your boys.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 734
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 01:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Charlene,
Gracie is sorrel and she was the one who passed on the agouti gene to Zita. Diego is black so there is no way he has an agouti gene. So just because Baby's sire was red dun doesn't mean he didn't carry it. Red based horses hide it seeing they have no black whatsoever. It would depend on his parents, his parents parents, etc. It is really up to you whether you want to bother with the agouti test or not. I know Gracie carries it but I am curious whether she is homozygous. This way it takes out some of the guessing when I breed her.
As far as Zita goes her coloring is easy. I know because of who her parents are that she is Aa Ee. Very simple. :-)
I think I would test Jetta to see if she has two black genes, that is if she were mine and I was planning someday on breeding her. Again it is up to you. :-)
Lots of Gracie's spots look like the one you took of Jetta. So maybe? I really wish I had the money right now!!! I want to know. :-)

Hey there, Bobbi!!!!! Great to hear from you!!! Would love to see updated pictures of your guys too!! And the new one when it gets here.
 

corina gabel
Breeding Stock
Username: Newyearsbaby05

Post Number: 150
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hey my piant has 6 or 7 new spots like Zita that jsut came out. hes 3 this year. his sire was homo tob. and his dam was overo out of 2 overos. It seems that every time i bath him i scrub hard in a spot cuz it wont come clean only to find out that the skin underneather is now colored. He had 3 spots like this last year with white hair over the top, this year they now have sorrel hair in them with a little ring of "blue" around the outside.

Can you have a horse homo for tobiano and allso carrie other paint patterns?
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 735
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 02:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Corina,
Yes, a Homozygous tobiano can carry other Paint genes. But both parents must carry the tobiano for the resulting foal to be homozygous.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 983
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now how can Jetta be homo for black if she is a bay/dun? I bet my mare is homo for Agouti, and that is why her Agouti overrode the stallions homozygous black gene. What do you think? I think I will do the Agouti test on my mare after all, and not test Jetta for homo black. I think I'll test Jetta for the Sabino gene though!
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 736
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 07:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your mare is red dun, right? I am sorry I was thinking she was zebra dun like Jetta. Sorry for the confusion. LOL :-)
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 984
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 07:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Emily, I just did the coat color calculator as if my mare was homo for the agouti, and it looks like their is a 50% chance of Jetta still being homo for black even though she has one copy of the Agouti. Did I read it right?





Shown below are the possible offspring coat colors and the probability of each determined using the given information of the sire and dam. Accuracy of the calculations are increase when more genetic information is known of the parents.
Sire Color: Black Tobiano Agouti: aa Tobiano: TT
Red Factor: EE LWO: nn
Cream: nn Sabino: nn
Silver: nn Splash: nn
Dun: dd Roan: rr
Champagne: nn Gray: gg
Dam Color: Zebra Dun (Bay Dun) Agouti: AA Tobiano: nn
Red Factor: Ee, EE LWO: nn
Cream: nn Sabino: nn
Silver: nn Splash: nn
Dun: Dd Roan: rr
Champagne: nn Gray: gg

Details: Zebra Dun Tobiano

EE/Aa/Dd/nT = 37.5000%
Ee/Aa/Dd/nT = 12.5000%

Details: Bay Tobiano

EE/Aa/nT = 37.5000%
Ee/Aa/nT = 12.5000%
Details: All

EE/Aa/Dd/nT = 37.5000%
EE/Aa/nT = 37.5000%
Ee/Aa/Dd/nT = 12.5000%
Ee/Aa/nT = 12.5000%

Offspring Color Probability

50.00% - Zebra Dun Tobiano
50.00% - Bay Tobiano
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 985
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 07:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My mare(Baby) is a bay dun like Jetta. Baby's dad was a red dun overo, who had bay duns in his background. Baby's mom was a bay quarter horse.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 737
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Wednesday, June 18, 2008 - 09:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay, yes then Jetta does have a 50% chance of being homozygous for the black gene, cool!! :-)
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 476
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 10:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OMG...you guys are making my brain hurt! Haha! I feel like I'm back in my genetics class at college. Too much math!

I used to have Apps when I was younger and was amazed at how their color/patterns change over time. I never realized that paints can do so as well until I owned them.

I just recently worked with APHA on my solid black breeding stock mare (Tobiano/Solid Product) who had JJ. She is a 6 year old and has always been solid color...until this year. When she grew her winter coat this past winter, she started to roan in the flank area. When she shed off this spring the roan spread from the flank area all over her sides. She's really roaning out heavy with each passing seasonal hair growth. APHA had me re-take pictures of her and she is now in the process of being re-registered with a new color and they are reviewing her to possibly change her from breeding stock to colored stock. I'm really quite amazed that this coloring is coming out. I can see it coming or surfacing as 2 or 3 year olds but waiting until their 6 to show white coloring? I guess its not as uncommon as I would think because APHA didn't even blink an eye when I first inquired about the roaning effect. Have any of you had a solid paint that colored out with age? Just curious!

I will definately get pictures for you on the boys. They are half shedded out (poor things look like they have mange or something when they go through that) and their base colors are so prominent now. JJ is definately a light chestnut (and I think he's going to end up with a bit of a dorsal stripe) while Moose is just as blood sorrel as his mother. As if you can't tell, Moose is by far my favorite personality. He's such a big baby and just loves humans. He's got a "simple mind" (in other words, he's a goober) and just doesn't have a mean bone in his body. He'll be broke before he's a yearling...hahaha...he likes being with people so much that he walks up beside you and you can wrap your arm over his back and use him as a leaning prop and he's quite content. I think he'll just be one of those that by the time he's old enough to support weight, you'll just be able to crawl on him and call him broke. I'm continually amazed that they are being worked with using the same methods and same people and have such different personalities.
 

charlene birdsall, Jetta born 3/20/08
Breeding Stock
Username: Charlie67

Post Number: 986
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Thursday, June 19, 2008 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That is interesting Bobbi. My mare, Baby, is a b/s paint(her dad is a red dun overo) she just turned 8, and she is still a b/s paint haha! I've heard of them getting white spots when they get older, but not at 6yrs. This genetics stuff is pretty interesting to say the least. Did Moose get his temperment from his mom? I can't wait to see what Jetta will look like when she is all shed out. If it would hurry up and get hot here already, then she might actually finish shedding I will look forward to your pics of the boys.
 

Terry Waechter maravilla and her posse
Breeding Stock
Username: Watchman

Post Number: 303
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

All you guys are WAYYYYYYYYY more patient than I am....I can't wait to see what color these babies are going to be and since we reach the 100s in the summer, I body clipped all my babies....it turned out to not only reveal their color sooner but to be an excellent training event. All stood for clipping like it was nothing. It took me about a week to finish the job, just doing a little each day with a small pair of clippers ( the kind you use for finishing touches). Foal hair is so fine it clips off without much trouble. I leave the head and legs which makes them look funny but does the job. They are cool in the summer heat and I am happy to know what the colors are....

Here is Jesse James, Zane Gray, and Scarlett in various stages of clip and shed....

[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/DSC_0726.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/DSC_0730.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/DSC_0455.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x58/terryberry_bucket/P1000725.jpg[/IMG]
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1549
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 11:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm in love Terry!!! Your horses are so beautiful, I want one so bad!!!!
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 738
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My computer is being tempermental and won't let me see your pictures. But I know your horses are beautiful anyway. :-)

If it was that hot here I would consider clipping too.
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 365
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 12:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WOW! You Paint horse people are so technical! Lots of research and stuff. At least us Quarter Horse people just wonder if it will be bay, sorrel, etc. Ummm.... will it have a stocking? A star? That's about as exciting as it gets :-)

Actually I have two mares bred this year to a Gray who appears to throw a gray or some variation of it about 50% of the time. So I'm thinking that with my sorrel mare it will be either gray or sorrel, about 50/50 chance and with my bay mare it will be either bay or gray, about a 50/50 chance.
That's exciting for us as far as the color thing!

Emily, really pretty momma and baby, and yes they look at lot alike.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 739
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Catherine!!! I think part of the fun of breeding Paints is all the color possibilities!!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 480
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

charlene: I'm a bit baffled as your are that at 6 she has decided to "white out" on me. I've never quite had that happen. Maybe having JJ just put all those "gray hairs" on her. Hahaha! He's quite the handful.

Moose definately got his temperment from his mom. (She's quite the goober too..haha!) She is a loveable, non-spookable, bombproof, people horse. Got lucky on that one. Echo is also laid back, not quite the loveable people horse, she's much more timid and is lowest on the pecking order so she has that Omega type personality where she just "stays out of everybody's way"...JJ got his dad's personality. Its really odd because dad is what I call "food aggressive"...you know, one of those horses that when you grain him and pins his ears back and gets all nasty. Well, lo and behold, JJ has displayed that behavior the last couple of days. I thought some personality might be "learned behavior" but he's not anywhere close to dad and certainly doesn't have access to dad's behaviors so I'm chalking it up to genetics! Haha!

Terry: You are TOO funny! I thought I was impatient. Helping nature along a little, huh? My little guys are still nuts about fly spray. You'd think that by this point they would have it figured out that it isn't going to bite them. Fly spray is a process that involves lots of "circle running" and I think the surrounding air gets more treatment than the foal does at times. I can't even attempting a body shave. Ha! You've done good with your babes!

Catherine: Haha! Just remember...some of us "paint people" are QH people too! Hahaha! Out of my seven, two of them are registered QH's. So, it just makes for a little more fun guessing games. We always have a family contest on guessing sex of the foal, base color and then...we move on to "will it have spots". Makes for interesting combinations. When the foal hits the ground, whoever gets closest to all three wins an ice cream!

Throw in the hetero or homo issues or the pattern issues or color dominance with paints being different than that of other breeds and foaling turns into Christmas...you never know what Santa's leaving you. Hey, an interesting thought in your color equation...could the gray actually throw a roan your way?
 

Catherine Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: Cateowen

Post Number: 366
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 02:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi,
RE: Roaning with the Gray stallion:
Its a possibility, particularly with my bay mare who has some white hairs (minor roaning) over her flanks in particular. I think it would be cool to get a blue roan.
The stallion (Huntin For Chocolate) is almost snow white now at about 12 years old. So the graying gene is very dominant with him. (An interesting thing about him when I saw him up close this year, he seems to have light tan "freckles" over his body. You didn't notice them until you got right up to him).
He was a silver gray with some black in his mane and tail as a young horse, but he has always been pretty white.
He thows about 50% grays and everything from dapples to almost white like him.
From what I have concluded it will be gray or the foal's tend to take on the mare's base color. Some of his foals are just as hard chestnut, bay, etc. as the dams.

As far as guessing what it is, I just always pray it is healthy and a nice foal. Color, sex, etc. that's just icing after you get a nice, healthy foal on the ground and mama comes thru it in good shape. Those are my prayers.

(Message edited by cateowen on June 20, 2008)
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 489
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Catherine: Couldn't agree with you more. Smooth foaling with everyone coming out ok is the only real issue. Getting the color/sex you want just makes for a few more "happy dances".

That would be so cool if you got a blue roan!

One of my good friends raises racing TB's. She bred to a gray on both of her mares, one Bay and one Black. It was so neat to watch their foals color outcome. The bay had a deep chestnut, stayed that way until he was two. Then, wham, it seemed like overnight, he turned into a beautiful gray by the time he was three. Out of her black mare, that foal was a blue roan, that again, by the time he was a three year old, was almost a white. Gray is such an interesting factor. Even when you get the foal on the ground with whatever color, it doesn't always mean that is the outcome to adulthood. I am quite fascinated with the gray mixtures...you gets years of "I wonder what color we're going to really end up with"
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1744
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 02:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Terry~Babies are looking great! I agree grey is a puzzle. My mare who is 17 born bay gone grey but lots of bay dappling, her 5 year old son was bay no grey till he hit 3 and now he is dappling too. Gracie almost one is chestnut but has some sneaky white hairs on her flanks I think she is going to grey on me too!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 491
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 03:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jan: Grey/gray (by the way...what is the correct usage of that dual spelling..hahaha) is just an amazing gene that keeps you guessing. I have never had the pleasure of owning one but I just love them! They are incredibly stunning animals.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 564
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Friday, June 20, 2008 - 04:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bobbi, It's even more confusing in the appy world than paints! Yes, it's strange that your 6 yr old is roaning....but I have a 13 year old appy mare who has new spots every year! She was a dun roan when I bought her a year ago, and now she has golfball sized pure white spots on the front half, and golfball sized pure black ones on her rump...all new within the last year! I am amazed constantly breeding appies...at how often they are an entirely new horse when they change coats!
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 494
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 12:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Diana: My Appy, as a kid, did the same thing! He was a "snowflake" bay that turned to a "spotted" bay over time (snowflakes just got bigger as time went on). They are strange creatures indeed with their changing coats. I just assumed that a solid paint would stay a solid, never expected her to roan out.
 

Diana Gilger
Breeding Stock
Username: Kdgilger

Post Number: 569
Registered: 01-2008
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yeah, that would be confusing on a paint! But hey, you didn't have to buy that roan you'd always wanted! LOL
 

Bobbi Govro
Breeding Stock
Username: Hh_farms

Post Number: 502
Registered: 03-2008
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 02:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL! Nope I sure didn't.
 

Valerie Myers
Yearling
Username: Libertybelle

Post Number: 66
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

HELP Color Question; Our 6 week old Buckskin solid filly, Nara.. is not just shedding out to a darker buckskin color, but she's shedding out to a black or dark grey color on her butt, back and withers! Is she going to be a smutty buckskin, or is it possible for a buckskin to shed out to a smoky black? Her muzzle is a smoky black now not buckskin anymore and the outside of her ears are black not just the points. Her overall body is still buckskin? Her legs are shedding out black. ?????? What the heck do we have going on here? Jan Owen, anybody?? Yikes!
 

Valerie Myers
Yearling
Username: Libertybelle

Post Number: 67
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know the legs should be black on a buckskin, but the body? hmmmm
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 744
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valerie, either smutty buckskin or smokey black could be a possibility. Do you have pictures to share? If you want to know for sure you can have her tested for the aguoti gene.
 

Valerie Myers
Yearling
Username: Libertybelle

Post Number: 68
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, I wasn't sure if a buckskin could shed out to a smokey black. I had grullo shed out once to a buckskin, but that was out of Dun gene parent. This baby is out of my Bay Overo Mare and a Cremello Solid, I bred for a buckskin. I did the genetic testing with UCD and knew that my chances were 50% Buckskin, 50 Palomino with a rare chance of a Smokey Black. But I didn't know if a Buckskin born foal could change to a Smokey Black. Is that possible? If not, I've probably got a Smutty Buckskin..
 

Valerie Myers
Yearling
Username: Libertybelle

Post Number: 69
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 06:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'll take some pics of her shading tonight and post them tomorrow for you to see.
 

Valerie Myers
Yearling
Username: Libertybelle

Post Number: 70
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh by the way, her mare is AA for Agouti.
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 745
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2008 - 07:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valerie, no a buckskin can not shed out to a smokey black but foal color coats can be deceiving and sometimes it is hard to see their true color until they shed out. However seeing your mare is AA then the foal is buckskin. :-)
 

Valerie Myers
Yearling
Username: Libertybelle

Post Number: 71
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 01:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So I think I have a Smutty/Sooty Buckskin. I didn't think she could shed to black. Well here's the links to the pics. 3 links for 3 different slide shows. I loved her light baby buckskin color, now it's going smutty! LOL

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/mypaints/Nara%20changing%20Color/?action =view&current=88b30ac7.pbw

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/mypaints/Nara%20changing%20Color/?action =view&current=4ad469e8.pbw

http://s301.photobucket.com/albums/nn58/mypaints/Nara%20changing%20Color/?action =view&current=09f81313.pbw
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 746
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2008 - 02:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

She is very lovely!! It will be interesting to see what she looks like when she is fully shed out. :-)
 

Marilyn Lemke - Dora due 7/31/08
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: Marilyn_l

Post Number: 1604
Registered: 06-2007
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2008 - 01:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Valerie, you should shave and see what you get. But the bugs might bother her too much. She looks rather dark underneith that coat. I would never have believed she would end up dark like that. It's really pretty though. Do you like it?
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 775
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 01:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Now that Zita is three months and almost all shed out you can see her spots so much clearer.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/Zita3Months.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/pnhpaintlover/Zita3Months1.jpg

What do you think?? Homozygous?? They are just so hard to see in pictures. I still plan on getting her tested when ever I have a little extra money. So that may be never. LOL
 

Jan Owen
Senior Stallion or Mare
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 1816
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 02:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Homozygous? I don't know, but PRETTY, Yes! She is really filling out nicely Emily....she looks great!
 

Emily West, Zita born 4/12
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 776
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, July 17, 2008 - 02:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks, Jan!!!!
 

Mariko~Jewel foaled 2/23/08 Filly
Yearling
Username: Saffrons_baby

Post Number: 70
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 01:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ahh! Abeo is almost 5 months and still not completely shed out!

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/saffrons_baby/July%202008/JewelIndieand AbeoJuly6th051.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/saffrons_baby/July%202008/JewelIndieand AbeoJuly15th-18th003.jpg

She is going to be a nice dark seal color underneath it all though!

Everyones babies are so cute! Valerie, her new smutty color is like what I got when Abeo was born!

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj267/saffrons_baby/February%202008/FirstTrip outforBabyFeb25th076.jpg



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