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Is it possible that my stallion is homozygous???

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Is it possible that my stallion is homozygous??? « Previous Next »


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Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 274
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 10:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello all again, i am forever posting the same kind of questions but you are all so happy to answer so i will again!!
I bought a stallion (tobiano) we drove 13 hours to collect him and the seller told me he was homozygous..but hadnt had him tested..she said from 15 foals all were tobiano and mostly from solid mares! One lady had 1 mare covered 3 times from him (solid mare) and all 3 foals were tobiano,(the mare had been previosly to other tobiano stallions and never had a tob foal) So i thought the chance was high that he was...got to the farm and found out that (although the main pedigree i knew) that his mother was bay! So from my reckoning he cannot be homozygous or???you need both parents to be tobiano dont you?Is there no chance??? is it worth wasting my money and testing? Problem is i already have a non homozygous stallion and we only wanted this one cos we thought he was homozygous but after driving so long and he is a nice stallion with good papers..we bought him anyway!!What do you say..no chance???Thanks
 

Emily West
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 300
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 11:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saffron,
Is he registered with APHA or some other registry? If so does it say anything else by his dams name other then bay?? Also what is his registered name?
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 275
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 11:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He is registered in germany as a warmblood pinto!
In the papers it gives the colour of him and his parents but not his grandparents..but his father was (i think) homozygous!
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 137
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saffron, I'm not very familiar with color genetics but I seem to remember reading somewhere that if a stallion has had 10 or more foals come out colored then he is considered homozygous. I don't know if that's genetically true but if he's had all 15 foals tobiano, I bet you're probably safe. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!!
 

Sandy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Sandystone

Post Number: 167
Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 12:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The only way to be sure he is homozygous is to have him tested! The test is not very expensive, so if you really want to know - I'd do it. I assume you want to know if he is homozygous for Tobiano. I had my filly (Stella) tested, and she is homozygous for Tobiano and Black.
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 276
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi sandy...what parents did your filly have?
So I cant rule out homozygozity because the mother was bay??Thanks
 

Emily West
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 302
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 04:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If his dam is a bay tobiano then yes, he could be but if she is a solid bay then no he couldn't be homozygous. The only way for a solid horse to carry the tobiano gene is in very rare cases they have so little white that they look solid but in fact are not. What do his papers say about the sire?? Do they say he is tobiano and give his color as well?? Or do they just give his base color??
Do you have any pictures of your stallion to share?? I would love to see some.
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 277
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 02:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry photos isnt very good but that is him..his father was from poland and definitely homozygous and on his paper it says father bay tobiano mother bay..thats all!! I have also read in books that it isnt possible so there is no point in testing?
http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/saffron_2007/?action=view&current=pictur es572.jpg
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 278
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 02:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

While we are on the subject...i have a tobiano yearling, foal and 2 mares...all with one parent solid...so i dont need to test them either?!!
But of the 2 foals i am expecting from 2 tobiano parents can be tested because they have a 25% chance..is this right?
 

Emily West
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 303
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 08:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If it only says bay that would seem to indicate that his mother was not tobiano. If that is indeed true then no there is no reason to test him. Yes, the two foals would have a 25% chance of being homozygous!
 

Tracy Smith
Breeding Stock
Username: Tracys

Post Number: 140
Registered: 08-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saffron, I think your stallion is very pretty, or should I say Handsome! :-)
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 279
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thankyou all!!
I am a bit disappointed, he has had only 15 foals and all tobiano so i guess the next 15 with me will be solid..Haha
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 280
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello again!!
I spoke to my vet about this homozygot lark and he was not greatly knowledgable on the subject! (but after listening to you guys and reading my books it is very clear that with a bay mother my stallion can NOT be homozygous)
Still he(my vet) got in contact with a clinic in germany that does this testing( a big clinic in a big city) and the clinic said.... 1)we need to take blood (thought you needed hair)...2)Just because the mother was bay doesnt mean necessarily that he CANNOT be homozygous..he could be and i should test him...3)cost 100 euros plus tax (i thought it was cheap)...so now i am totally confused...can someone explain please???i dont feel like throwing 100 euros away on a test which i know the answer to...plus if we know its not possible why dont they???(or are there exceptions??)
 

Teresa Byersdorf
Weanling
Username: Bravehart

Post Number: 28
Registered: 04-2007
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 03:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Saffron,
Sometimes a horse appears solid but does in fact carry the tobiano gene..it is very rare though. If the dam is indeed solid in appearance, most likely she does NOT carry the tobiano gene and your stud cannot be homozygous. But, there is a teeny tiny chance the mare MIGHT be tobiano and not look it..which means your stud would have had a 25% chance of homozygousity. Guess that is what the testing place is implying...you can't know for sure if you don't know if the dam was tobiano or not.
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 281
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi thanks Teresa, the mother has NO chance of a tobiano gene...the pedigree is tb and german warmblood..she really cant have a tobiano gene!
 

Emily West
Breeding Stock
Username: Paintlover

Post Number: 305
Registered: 06-2006
Posted on Monday, October 08, 2007 - 05:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If there is no chance that the mother has the gene then there is no chance he is homozygous. Sorry :-(
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 362
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 04:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Both sire and dam have to carry the tobiano gene for the resulting foal to have a chance of homozygosity. If one parent is a tobiano the foal can be a tobiano too, and if one parent is homozygous, the resulting foal will be 100% paint, though not homozygous.

deb
 

Saffron
Breeding Stock
Username: Saffron

Post Number: 282
Registered: 01-2007
Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone, i get a bit frustrated because a clinic thinks its worth testing and of course it isnt worth testing....i guess he just had luck for the last 15 foals....i hope the luck doesnt change here!



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