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Color and pattern question...

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Color and pattern question... « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 57
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know some of you just love this stuff, so I thought I'd put in another question!

I may breed my mare to a sorrel overo stallion, neg for olws and N/N. My mare is a Homozygous for tobiano Blk/white, with 2 foals that are blk/white. I just submitted a sample to see if she is also homozygous for black. I've been playing with the color calculator, which brings me to my questions which are:

1. My mare is homozygous for Tobiano, but the cc says the baby could also be Tovero?

2. If my mare turns out homozygous for black, it also says the baby could come out bay?

Is this true? Interesting......

Thanks everyone!
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 335
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 12:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joyce: Because your stallion is bred to an overo, he could throw his overo pattern and your mare is homo for tobiano, so she gives the tobiano pattern, thus you get a mix of patterns overo and tobiano which gives you a tovero.

If your mare is homo for black, your baby could be a bay because a bay is actually a black horse. A bay has the Agouti gene modifier which limits the black to points (ears, mane, tail, legs).

If the lab you sent your samples to does the agouti test and she is Aa, you could have a bay, but seeing she has had two black and white foals, She is obviously not homo for agouti AA or you would never get a black and white out of her.

Deb
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here I was thinking all this time she could only have a tobiano foal.

I sent to UCDavis and they are doing the Red Factor and Agouti.

The sires of her two preivous foals are, solid black, and black/white tobiano.

What is agouti AA?
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 336
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Agouti AA is homozygous for Agouti, or a homozygous Bay. A horse that comes back AA will NEVER have a black bodied foal. Your mare is obviously not AA or she could not have had a black and white.

If your bw mare turns out to be homo for black, she will never produce a red based horse either, so crossed with the sorrel you will either get a bay or a black based horse. (both are black gened horses)
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 337
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 01:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

one more thing... with the overo stallion, he should be tested for hypp and for owls and be negative. IF he is not tested you may want to double think the choice.

My stallions are all dna tested and also hypp and lethal white tested just to be sure. all are negative.
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

He is tested for both, I put that in my first post. :-)

I'm learning so much from you, thanks! One more question please. So IF she is NOT homozygous for black, the foal can be chestnut/white?

Thank you Debbie!

Joyce
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 338
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yep. If she is not homo for black, she is Ee E being the black dominant gene, and e being the red gene. The stallion is a sorrel, so he is ee, which means that you have only a 25% chance of a black foal and 75% chance of a chestnut base color.

What were the sire colors of her two black and whites?

Deb
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 60
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 02:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

One was solid black and one was a blk/white tobiano.

Joyce
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 340
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 09:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

OK. Since both stallions were black, the foals could have got their black from the dad as well. It should be interesting to see what she turns out to be.
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 61
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for all your help, Deb!! The recieved my sample on Wednesday and they say it take 5-10 days to get the results. I'll post here as soon as I get it!

Again, thanks for everything!

Joyce
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 62
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I just got the results!

She is: Red Factor E/E

Agouti a/a

No Red babies! Only black or bay tobiano!!!!
 

Jan Owen
Breeding Stock
Username: 1frosty1

Post Number: 616
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 01:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joyce,

So glad you got the results you wanted!

Jan
 

Debbie Burnett
Breeding Stock
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 346
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 04:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Excellent, a homo black. :-)

Deb
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 261
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 08:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Is the sire Aa or AA? That is the only way you can get a bay from your mare.
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 63
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmmm, good question Cathy. Would the sire have to be Aa to get a bay? I will check my info and see if I have that information on the stallion. I will also e-mail the owner.
 

Joyce
Yearling
Username: Luv2ridesaddleseat

Post Number: 64
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Jan and Debbie! Now hopefully we can get her pregnant with no problems this spring. :-)
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 262
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 10:09 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Joyce yes the sire would have to be A_. Your mare is aa so the gene has to come from the sire.



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