Hi everyone, could anyone help with suggestings on what colour foal I may get. I am thinking of breeding my black WB mare to a black blanket spot appy stallion who has some varnishing/roaning up the neck and on the head. What are the possibilites of getting a black blanket spot foal and any suggestions as to the percentage of white. Also would I get the same results from a bay WB mare. Thanks
I am not an expert, but I read extensively after I had a chestnut leopard out of a bay roan and a pinto. There is a researcher that has written articles. Her name is Sheila Archer. She is Canadian. She has diagrams on what chances you would have. Search also for The Appaloosa Project website.
From what I understand, black throws less color. Color tends to come out more on bay. Black is a more sought out color... Since you are mating an appy with a non-appy, you have less chance of color with a black than a bay, but a black blanketed baby is more in keeping with the breed. I would breed both and do my own little genetic study.
Hello Lynn, I am not sure about WB genetics, but the appaloosa stallion (Black with blanket and spots, possible roaning) would genetically be LPlp and would either have the color genetic makeup as a E/E a/a (meaning he is dominant for black - do you know what any of his offspring have been?) or E/e a/a (meaning he is heterozygous, a gene for black and one for red).
Your cross for white coloring would probably be: LPlp (stallion) X lplp (mare) = 50% chance to get a foal with "LPlp" (meaning the foal would at least have characteristics all the way to being a leopard, but it will not be a blanket with no spots or a fewspot) and a 50% chance of a foal with "lplp" (meaning it would be solid with no characteristics).
As far as the foal being black and white rather than another color. Black and bay are very similar. A black horse genetically looks like this: E/E a/a or E/e a/a. I am assuming that your mare is black and not bay so her genetic code would have to either be E/E a/a or E/e a/a. And you said that the stallion is black or he would be either E/E a/a or E/e a/a. Have either of these horses been color tested? That would anwser some questions for us if they have been tested. UC Davis is where we have our appaloosas tested.
Here is what your odds should be depending on what the mare and stallion are:
E/E a/a (stallion) X E/E a/a (mare) = 100% that your foal will be black based foal.
E/e a/a (stallion) X E/E a/a (mare) = 100% that you will get a black based foal.
E/E a/a (stallion) X E/e a/a (mare) = 100% that you will get a black based foal.
E/e a/a (stallion) X E/e a/a (mare) = 75% that you will get a black based foal and a 25% chance that you will get a red based foal.
As for the bay WB mare. The LP (white patterning) would be the same. The color genetic code would be a little different. This mare would be any of the following (to know for sure you should have her tested): E/E A/A or E/E A/a or E/e A/A or E/e A/a. She would have a higher chance of producing a bay than a black foal.
If you would like some color charts let me know I can email you some or send the links so you can find them. I would reccomend that you have the horses color tested. You would then be able to better determine your chances, and if your black mare is homozygous for black than you are guaranteed a black foal.
Anyways, I know that can be a little hard to understand, but it gets much easier as you study equine genetics. Appaloosa genetics can be a little more hard to understand. We raise appaloosas and strive for black and white, therefore many of our mares have been color tested, and so has our young stallion.
Sorry for the double post, but I am not too good with this sort of thing.
The mare is, as far as I know, all black breeding, she is due to foal any day to a black dressage stallion, so I eagerly await the arrival of her foal. Private B Riker does carry the chestnut gene, as his father is chestnut. so we know his genetic makeup.
I really want to breed a spotty botty dressage horse, so I am putting two of my dressage mares to this stallion. My other mare is a bay, she has a bay mother and father, but I am not sure if the chestnut gene is hiding. I am really excited to see what we get next year, but if we don't get any white, I am sure they will be lovely babies.
OK so the stallion "Private B Riker" genetic makeup would look like this:
LPlp E/e a/a
And hopefully, and very likely, your mare is homozygous for black...fingers crossed! Her foal looks bay and if the foals sire is chestnut then he got the small e from his sire and a large E from his dam (your black mare). So if she is homozygous for black then her genetic makeup would look like this: lplp E/E a/a if she is not homozygous for black then her genetic makeup looks like this: lplp E/e a/a
So you would either have this cross: LPlp E/e a/a X lplp E/E a/a (giving you a 50% chance of color 50% of a solid foal, 100% chance of a black foal) or your cross could look like this: LPlp E/e a/a X lplp E/e a/a (giving you a 50% change for color and a 50% chance of solid, a 75% chance of black and white and a 25% chance of a red (or chestnut) foal).
That is a beautiful stallion, and a beautiful mare. I wish you all the luck with your foal. If you are for sure wanting color, you might check out breeding to a black and white snowcap or fewspot stallion. If you are looking for a sporthorse stallion to breed to, Butterwap confetti would be a great choice. He is tall, a fewspot (so you will get color), black and white, and a sporthorse. I have never met him in person, but one of these years I hope to have one of our sport mares bred to him. You can go to their site and look at him and his past foals. He is the second stallion on the page and his barn name is Oreo: http://www.confettifarms.com/
Please keep us updated on how it all goes. Hope for spots :-)
Another dressage appaloosa horse that also has old line foundation bloodlines would be Buck Shott H, and he stands at Black Hills Sport Horses in SD. www.bhsporthorses.com We have 2 mares out of him and have bred another mare of ours to him in hopes for a filly to keep.
You dont just go by the sire & dam for color coat patterns.. We had a white solid appaloosa stallion bred to a solid chestnut appaloosa mare with NO leopard in her background lines, and she had a solid white foal. & also, appaloosas change every year, we also have a chestnut appy who was solid when she was a baby, now shes a leopard, at only 5 yrs old, so its just gunna be a surprise! Hope its a good one for you all -but you should be getting a blanketed foal, or a snowflake coated foal. good luck!
(Message edited by appy101racer on June 17, 2008)
(Message edited by appy101racer on June 17, 2008)
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