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Impressive Lines in genetics

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Impressive Lines in genetics « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 39
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was looking at a one year old black and white homo filly. I was interested until I saw her pedigree and found she has some impressive breeding close up in her pedigree.

One breeder buddy tells me to stay away from the impressives because nobody will buy a foal from an impressive line, while others say its no big deal.

From what I can gather, Mr. Impressive was a stud that ended up with the HYPP degenerative muscle disorder and it spread throughout his lines and beyond. Is there any truth to this? I've been looking at search engines for any info and can't find anything.
 

Kim k
Weanling
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 01:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Debbie,
Yes that is true, but they have a test that is able to tell you if that impressive line carries that gene . Not all impressive lines carry the gene. I just bought a colt out of the impressive line and I did not hesitate to do so. He is a beautiful Chestnut and white overo out of C olonel Coosader -- a beautiful black and white overo-- from some fantistic breeders in Iowa-- Scenic View Ranch . 15 years ago I refused to buy something in this line, would refuse to breed to something with this line. Now it is now big deal, they have enough information on the problem and if you have a negitive/negitive result and don't introduce any other untested impressive into it then you will not have a problem. This is as far as the have been able to determine the genitic problem as there is no living relative past Impressive that they have been to test and so they are unable to determine where it exactly started. In the year 2006 the AQHA will require that all impressive bred horses will be tested for the gene and if you test positive then the horse will not be eligialble for registration from what they told me. It will be marked on your papers too from what I was told up until then that the horse is impressive bred and can carry the gene --- Not sure what the papers will exactly be saying ---don't have anything in the AQHA at this time only APHA. But was told it will be noted on reg. papers to the ansestry.

As long as it is coming from a negitive/negitive test result-- don't hesitate. The impressive line is a great bloodline and has many, many champions. A very plus to the gene pool in past generations and will still be now that the HYPP Gene is identified.

Kim
 

Kim k
Weanling
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 23
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 01:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

http://www.aqha.com/association/registration/hypp.html

here is a link to the AQHA site with some information there on requirements of registration with in the AQHA (this is where the gene is traced to--- AQHA ansestry)... There is nothing at this time that will prevent a positive horse inside apha.... so do your homework and make sure that any sires/dams with impressive lines are negitive/negitive results.

Hope this is some help
 

Sandy D
Nursing Foal
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 18
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 02:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deb,
If the Impressive bred horse you are thinking of purchasing has not been tested, or there has been no testing of the horse's ancestors back to Impressive, please ask that the horse be tested!
There are unfortunately a lot of breeders out there who are breeding Impressive bred horses who do not bother to have the horse tested for HYPP because they feel that if the horse has never shown any symptoms of having the disorder, it must be N/N. And that is just not true.
I had put a down payment on a gorgeous leopard Appaloosa colt one year whose dam was out of the Impressive line. When I had asked the owner whether or not the mare had ever been tested, all she could tell me was that they had had one of her foals tested once and the foal was HYPP N/N and that the mare had never shown any signs of illness or the disorder, so they were 100% positive that the mare was N/N.
Well, I asked that the foal I wanted to purchase be tested and rather than doing that, they decided to test their mare instead so that there would be no further question when it came time to sell more foals out of her. Well, guess what....the mare turned out to be N/H, meaning that she would pass the HYPP disorder on to 50% of her offspring. With that, they went ahead and tested the colt, and he too turned out to be N/H. So, it got me out of the contract to purchase him, but it broke my heart, as all of this went on for 3 months and I had already considered that the colt was mine.
Just be very, very careful when dealing with horses that are coming from the Impressive line, as there are breeders out there who are NOT careful.
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 40
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 03:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the info Sandy and Kim. This filly is only just turned one and I doubt the breeder has tested her, though she tells me she is homozygous for tobiano (she does have the cat paw markings etc). I will ask her if she has tested her for HYPP and if not, I think I will steer clear of her all the same. Maybe things are a bit different in Canada, since all those I have spoken to tell me that impressive bred foals do not sell. Sometimes selling a foal is hard enough without having another hurdle to get over.

Again, thanks for the info.. You guys are a fountain of info.

p.s. the lady that owns the perlino homo tobi has sent mane and blood to UC Davis yesterday. She is testing for black, red, agouti and creme as I had asked. I guess we should know in a couple of weeks whether this mare is a cremello or a perlino for sure, and whether she has AA or Aa.
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.128
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 08:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debbie- It depends on who you are selling to. Most people in the Halter and Western Performance world are familiar with the HYPP N/N designation. HYPP was quite a big deal in years past. Now people are reading and understanding more about it.

If she is what you want, and a N/N there is no reason to pass her by. After all, a well behaved, pretty filly with color is a keeper!
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 41
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 11:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I spoke again to the breeder who tells me that this filly has no relation to Mr. Impressive or the Impressive lines I am concerned about. I have her APHA # so Im going to do a bit of Sherlock Holmsing tomorrow and see what I can turn up through the APHA database. p.s. this filly is a halter baby, so halter is what I am looking for :

Thanks for your help!

Deb
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.56
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 11:59 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You can look up the AQHA registratiion # of the QH Impressive and check it against the #'s on the papers of the filly.

There could be a registration in the APHA for an "Impressive" named line that is no relation to the QH Impressive bloodline.
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 42
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I did check the APHA # for this filly 782415. She has Wink on Impress Q 2730136 as her grandfather, and Impressive Bit Q 2191698 as her great grandfather, and Ole Impressive Q1540053 Great, Great, Grandfather.

I am not registered with the AQHA so I can't investigate this pedigree through the quarterhorse website.
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.56
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 12:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Debbie- I checked for you on my membership. Wink on Impress has NOT been tested. Ole Impressive is a son of QH Impressive.

You can pull some hair from her tail and send it in to APHA for testing. I would ask for the breeder to do so, before purchasing this filly. She should be open to do so. If not, it may only cost around $40 or so.

I had 2 great grand offspring of Impressive that were N/N and fine for breeding as long as Impressive bloodlines were not re-intoduced.

Hope this helps.
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 43
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 01:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks TX. When I spoke to the breeder last night, she told me she didnt think there were any impressive lines on this filly at all. She bought 5 in a group from a ranch out western Canada. I have informed her of my discovery and she is checking into it.

THanks for the help. Its great that what one person can't investigate, with a little help from one of the gang, someone else can find out.

Again, thanks for the info. I will tell the breeder what you have told me. What she does with the info is up to her, but I sure wouldnt be looking at a filly without exhaustive investigation of both color genetics as well as this impressive line.

Deb. :-)
 

Sandra K. Kidder
Neonate
Username: Sandysz

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Deb.....There is a sight: www.allbreedpedigree.com that you can input your prospect into. If you have the parentage of the filly to make sure that you have the right bloodlines it will fill out the rest 5 generations deep for you. and it is FREE. I have put my horses on there and I am able to trace back to 1633. This way you will be able to see if Impressive is in her lineage. Let me know if this helps. Good luck, Sandy
 

Sandra K. Kidder
Neonate
Username: Sandysz

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 04:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am sorry I meant site. LOL I just checked and Impressive Bit (somebody goofed when putting in the breed, put in Przylowski LOL), and Ole Impressive are in there but Wink on Impress has not been inputted yet. If someone knows the parentage they can input it. Hope this helps..it goes back to 1633 for this ancestry too. Just click on the horse that you want to see the ancestry for and it will come up if it is inputted. Sandy
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 44
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks Sandra; I went to the site and took a look around. That is a great site :-) Thanks again.

Deb
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.173
Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 09:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deb- I took took the registration #'s you gave me, and yes... this is the Impressive bloodline that carries the HYPP. So if these names and numbers are off of the fillies papers, there is no question about it.

I spoke directly to a representative who was more than happy to explain about the testing and that her Grandfather Wink on Impress had not been tested. You did not include the name of her father, prehaps he has been tested. I would be happy to check on that for you.
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 45
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 07:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Morning Tx: Father is Dots Van Three #00442156

I will paste what the breeder had to say when I pasted many of these notices back to her, as well as an HYPP newsletter off the AQHA site that Sandra gave me:

Hello Debbie,

I am not afraid that this filly will not be HYPP n/n. I wouldn't be worried about at all! I don;t know why you are so afraid about the Impressive line and so many generations back?
Well, are you serious interested in buying the yearling ? Otherwise I will not test for it.
I can still test her for black gene if you like, but for me it is not too important, I know for sure that she is homo for Tobiano and later on when I breed her to a black she will likely give me a black.
have a nice evening,"""


There you have it.
I've decided not to purchase this filly for several reasons, the main one being the breeder's failure to disclose the Impressive line to me and in fact, deny she had impressive breeding.

Impressive may be nothing to worry about, but if the AQHA considers impressive as a defect and is stamping all registration paperwork with notification of impressive line breeding, then I will find myself another mare.

Sometimes you just have to go with your gut feeling and even though this breeder has 20 times more experience in paints than I do, failure to disclose information gives me reason to pause.

Deb
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.110
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 12:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That was my thought when she denied even knowing about the Impressive breeding! Sounds as if she really didn't want to be bothered by having to do some work. Too bad.

Things always happen for a reason, I think that I will check on Dots Van Three anyway. If he is her stallion, she probably didn't bother with testing.
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 49
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I got the impression that she bought all these fillies from a ranch out west. I know she doesnt have the stud who'se name is on the pedigree. She had 5 fillies and colts all black and white, all the same age, one homo tobi filly - which was the one I was looking at, and one colt that was homo tobi. All the foals had the same brand, so I know they came from the same place.

Shes not a stupid woman. When I first mentioned the impressive lines, she looked somewhat surprised. Maybe she didnt check the pedigree of this filly...or..... maybe she was surprised that I did LOL.. anyway, we know that the grandfather WInk on Impress wasnt tested, so I have no doubt that the father wasnt either, and we know by her email response that these foals weren't tested.

I have already contacted her and told her that I am not interested in this Impressive bred filly. Hard enough up here in Canada to sell a foal without a "defect" as the AQHA calls it.
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.110
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It sounds as if you know your market there in Canada. That is an important part of all of this. I hope that you find the one you want!
 

Sandy D
Weanling
Username: Sbr_appaloosas

Post Number: 22
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 02:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Deb,
It made my stomach turn when the seller told you "I am not afraid that this filly will not be HYPP n/n. I wouldn't be worried about at all!" It just sounds so close to what the lady had told me about the colt I was going to purchase. You are smart to pass this filly and seller on by.
 

TX Breeder (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.110
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It's no wonder why the term "horse trader" has bad connotations.
 

Debbie Burnett
Weanling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 50
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 03:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you got that right. !
 

Kim k
Weanling
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 33
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry to hear that things didn't work out ok for you. It is not good that she was not willing to disclose the information to you. That is a big thing is to tell people about what they are selling you.
I feel for those who get linked up in a bad situation to begin with. I think it is a good thing not to purchase from this lady --- not because of the impressive breeding (that can be tested for and come up with a sound answer) but because she was not honest.

Good luck in your search
Kim
 

Debbie Burnett
Yearling
Username: Horselady

Post Number: 51
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 06:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Gang:

Well, if nothing else, it serves as a good lesson to do your homework before you buy anything. This horse wasnt cheap, and had i purchased it without knowing about Impressive, I would have been stuck with a mare that might have given me foals that I was also stuck with, or had a mare that developed full blown HYPP down the road somewhere.

So to everyone out there looking to purchase a horse, check pedigrees, do your homework, ask questions, ask others in the know, and if you aren't satisfied with the answers, run, don't walk, in the opposite direction.

Deb
 

Impressed (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 64.136.26.235
Posted on Monday, March 06, 2006 - 03:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I own two grand daughters of Impressive. I am so glad that I did not let all the hype of the Hypp factor scare me I did my home work and learned.
still after 15yrs I still have my to girls. It has been a great experience to own these proud animals. If I would have listened to my friends and family I probably would of got rid of them as soon as possible. Yes one of them tested N/P and the other tested N/N. Yes I have bred them both knowing the chance I was taking. But with our new knowldge and medicine it isn't a problem really. And I can say all my babies are sound as well as there moms.
We must remember this line did not originally have this defect it was only when man step in did this defect surface. With carefull breeding and knowledge this line can be strong agian.
 

Elise Krueger
Neonate
Username: Elise

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 08:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There's a really informative article at: http://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/~lvmillon/hypp/hypp_facts.html
I have a 14 year old mare that is hypp n/h. Treated like all the rest with no symptoms. She's a lovely sweet mare (broodmare now) that has been a joy in our lives....we have medication on hand if it is ever needed and have educated ourselves in case she would ever have a problem. As the article says from U.C. Davis, there may be more bloodlines that carry HYPP....its just that Impressive had so many offspring, that they were able to identify it. Impressive himself sired many n/n (free of hypp)
I am sure as more work is being done, there will be more diseases identified in more bloodlines. (Poco Bueno for one)see: http://www.appaloosa-crossing.com/Horse_Health/HERDA.htm Personally, I wouldn't worry a bit about Impressive bloodlines ...just have to do your homework.
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 114
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 06:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have shown and been around many impressive horses. I've seen an affected HYPP foal blow with seizures, therefore would never consider owning one who was N/H, or H/H...I don't want the heartache. I know people who have N/H horses that have never had any symptoms and do just fine. This is definately a shame, because these animals are beautiful and well bred...

In that same frame of mind, and realizing that I don't make the rules (so don't eat me):
The future of the HYPP issue is certain, regardless of wants of others. In future years to come, these animals will have little value for showing or breeding simply because (at some point) they will be unregisterable, or the resulting affected (positive) foals will be unregisterable.
There are lots of great Impressive horses out there that do not carry the HYPP gene and would think it would be of interest to breed within those lines....if only for registration and monotary reasons.
Also said before by someone, a horse can have HYPP w/out the impressive breeding. HYPP is documented in people as well.
 

Elise Krueger
Neonate
Username: Elise

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I totally understand the concerns.....but please
open your mind and understand just as it is with many potential problems with humans, there are going to be genetically identified problems with the pets we all love....example: horses and dogs.........this is ONE example:
http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=750135

Everyone is allowed their opinion and that is based their experience....but it's just not the same for everyone.

I certainly respect everyones knowledge and don't mean to offend....but those of us that have had very positive experiences with hypp n/h horses with proper management do not reqret our decisions. I really do see it from your prospective.....we've opened a can of "worms" with genetic testing.....truly.....if there is not a market for hypp n/h horses, or foundation breeding with Poco Bueno (HERDA), the market WILL
seek it's own level. If there is not a market for these horses..........folks WILL NOT BREED these bloodlines.....(this is strictly my opinion) Thanks for your time.
 

E Watkins
Breeding Stock
Username: Evie

Post Number: 337
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 02:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Elise- I have to agree with you, we have owned/do own both Poco bred horses (and have never had a case of HERDA) as well as some Impressive bred horses that were just wonderful and perfectly healthy. It's such a shame to see horses with those bloodlines being discounted because of one horse in their pedigree. In our area, the Impressive bred horses do not sell well, people are afraid of what they may be getting. With the testing being required now, maybe that will eliminate some of the discrimination against these fine animals.
 

Dianne Edwards
Weanling
Username: Mamaedwards

Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

It is obvious that breeders and horse people like you guys are responsible and informed---but people like the lady trying to sell the horse to Debbie are the ones causing the problems. Not being informed about the defect, not testing, and not being honest even when asked about it. If the horses testing positive were not bred the percent of incident would fall drasticly and eventually be a small factor. Most people in our area just dont want the added complication of testing and educating every buyer.
My nephew has a mare with Impressive bloodline, she is Neg and a beautiful girl. It is a shame breeders like her continue to tarnish this potentially otherwise good bloodline.
Dianne
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 140
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 02:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The Impressive line is an obviously successful line, and will continue to be for generations to come.
The QH industry is fortunate, as they are able to get "their cake and eat it too". They have identified a genetic disease that can be prevented....and are able to continue on with the line with unaffected horses.
I live in a belt of Halter & performance breeders. Impressive horses predominate our area. So does HYPP. HYPP positive horses are hard to sell, but the Impressive bred negative horses are priceless and sell like hot cakes.
 

Kim k
Breeding Stock
Username: Kimk

Post Number: 546
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, April 05, 2006 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Whew! I am excited! I got back hypp testing on my colt. We are NN !Yippie! Although the close Impressive lines on the sires side were NN, the mares side was questionable as we could not find any test results on a granddam and dam was untested.

So I am good to go! We had several people interested in breeding within the next few years, now we can rest assured.

Kim



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