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Breeding horses with same sire

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Breeding horses with same sire « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Karen Griffith
Neonate
Username: Stlgirl

Post Number: 1
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Monday, May 02, 2005 - 10:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

B"H

Hello,
Can you breed Dam and Sire that have same father?
Or will you get problems?

Thank you,
STLgirl
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10064
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 01:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If you are "inbreeding" (the term for this), then you will be increasing the genetic material from that particular line. This means that you will be doubling up the good genes, but you will also be doubling up any bad genes. In other words the foal may be good or bad - there's no way to predict the outcome.
 

Karen Griffith
Neonate
Username: Stlgirl

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 08:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hello,
Does inbreeding cause deformity in the foals of such inbreeding?
 

Jos
Board Administrator
Username: Jos

Post Number: 10065
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 02:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As I observed above, if the same genetic infirmity is present in both parents, then by inbreeding one runs the risk of doubling up the "bad" gene. Inbreeding does not create the "bad" gene, it has to be there already.

 

TX Breeders (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 199.3.209.146
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 02:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would be very aware of any conformational flaws. The possibility exists of creating more of the same, instead of improving upon the good.

If there are no such flaws in the pedigrees, then you stand a better chance of ending up with "the best of the best"

I like to stay one generation away on one side or at least have the sires as half-brothers.
 

Kim v.
Neonate
Username: Twhgait

Post Number: 9
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 04:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My 24 y.o. mare is the product of a brother and sister breeding. She's an awesome horse, no complaints!!!! It's not something I think I would risk doing thou.
 

Saucy
Nursing Foal
Username: Saucy

Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 09:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know some of the big showjumping studs in beligium and germany routinely breed daughters back to their fathers very successfully. That's even closer breeding than your example.

I don't think the risk is massive personally and I would consider doing it if the mating met a number of strict criteria such as soundness, general health, no reoccurring conformational issues in the family lines etc. etc. You need to do your research though and only undertaken if all the boxes are ticked.

Horses are certainly no where near as inbred as dogs, although some arabian and welsh lines are unbelievably in bred with very successful results. I think it has got out of hand in dogs and wouldn't want to see it happening in horses, however is you had an exceptional pair of animals I would certainly consider it seriously.

Inbreeding is an area of much controversy - a bit like politics, religion and breeding from 2 yr old colts !!
 

Jenn
Neonate
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

When inbreeding/linebreeding you have to be prepared to cull hard. The offspring from such matings tend to run to extreems.
 

Kim Winter
Yearling
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 75
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenn - whats 'cull'?
 

E Watkins
Nursing Foal
Username: Evie

Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:32 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jos-

What about the possibilty of 1/2 brother to 1/2 sister being crossed? ( same sire, different dams )
 

Jenn
Neonate
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

By "cull" I mean "not keep the offspring for breeding". Offspring from inbreeding/linebreeding can get a double dose of the the best traits, but sometimes you can get a horse with a double dose of the worst. I have seen foals with VERY poor conformation born from inbreeding, when the year before the same mating produced a top quality foal.
When animals are bred that are very closely related if they carry a reccesive undesireable trait, it will show in at lease some of the offspring.
 

Kim Winter
Yearling
Username: Clafairy

Post Number: 77
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 12:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh right - yeah i see what you mean, thanks
 

Emma
Yearling
Username: Emma

Post Number: 80
Registered: 09-2005
Posted on Friday, January 06, 2006 - 06:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the other thing to remember when doing this is that when breeding with the inbreed offspring that it is safer to breed back to a line completly unrelated. I have seen some QH's with so many crosses back to the one stallion it is rediculous, i have heard of foals from such horses being less than meadioka in the confirmation department
 

Lisa Weir
Breeding Stock
Username: Pals_pal

Post Number: 103
Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 09:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'd never consider doing this, but I do have a question.

In breeds with a relatively small genetic pool, will this eventually result in mutations? It does in mice and humans and I was wondering if, say, thouroughbreds with their already extensive line breeding will eventually cause problems.
 

Diana P
Neonate
Username: Blondana

Post Number: 3
Registered: 02-2006
Posted on Sunday, February 05, 2006 - 08:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My two bits...
Like it was stated above, it depends on if the lines have any problems in them. In- or line-breeding will bring out those traits. I have been breeding cats for years and I researched my lines for years before I started to breed. I picked the best lines in the country that had years and years if big, healthy offspring and no known genetic defects. I have never had a problem with my kittens, even if I breed close. But with cats you have a lot more offspring to compare and research. If you are very familiar with the lines you are using, going back for generations, and there is no known health problems, you have a better chance of producing something healthy with a line breeding. If there were any problems at all in their history - I wouldnt go there.

When you look at the Cheetah issue - so few of them left there is no gene pool to outcross. There are so few of them that they are forced to inbreed to extremes and are loosing their genetic diversity and health. That is an extreme because there are so few of them. I cant imagine that someone would intentionally keep inbreeding as the Cheetah's are forced to do. I think a close breeding once in awhile would be ok with all the factors I listed above. Just be aware it could ruin a good pedigree to have that close of a breeding on there. It's a big turn off to many.
Diana
 

Anonymous
 
Posted From: 66.42.8.202
Posted on Monday, February 06, 2006 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

With so many REALLY NICE Stallions to breed to, why would anyone want to "in-breed"? Personally, that seems awful egotistical. On paper,I have seen some Pedigrees that appear that the Stallion is breeding itself. And yes, that is a BIG turn off.
 

E Watkins
Yearling
Username: Evie

Post Number: 65
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think inbreeding is done to try and duplicate a horse that has really good qualities, though unfortunatly, it can result in a lot of not so great horses being produced as well.



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