MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
SITE MAP OF EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
CONTACT US

horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
horse breeding
Go to the articles page
 
Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board
 
Topics Page Topics Page Register for a new account Register Edit Profile Profile Log Out Log Out Help/Instructions Help    
New Posts New Posts Last 1|3|7 Days Search Search Tree View Tree View  
Posting is restricted to registered board members only to prevent spamming of the board. We regret the necessity of this action, but hope you will appreciate the importance of the integrity of the board. Registration is free and information provided during the process will not be submitted to third parties.

Question about palomino colour -- Pleas help!

Equine-Reproduction.com Bulletin Board » Equine Genetics » Question about palomino colour -- Pleas help! « Previous Next »


Author Message
 

Help!
Posted From: 67.71.3.44
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 08:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am interested in buying a palomino TB mare (by a palomino stallion) in hopes of using her as a broodmare. She is more money than I would like to spend, but if I can get palomino foals out of her I am willing to spend a bit more.

What are the chances of getting a palomino foal out of her from a chestnut or bay stallion? What about from a palomino stallion.

Thanks for your help!
 

Cathy
Posted From: 65.54.97.146
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A palomino bred to a sorrel is 50% sorrel 50% palomino.
Palomino bred to palomino is 50% palomino, 25% sorrel, 25% cremello.
Palomino bred to bay is also 25% palomino unless the bay is homozygous for black then you will not get any red based foals.
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 81.131.233.18
Posted on Thursday, September 02, 2004 - 08:08 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A cremello bred to a chestnut will give you palamino 100% of the time. That's how you guarantee it.
 

Angel
Posted From: 166.102.44.35
Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 10:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi all. I have a 3 year old palamino quarter horse filly. She is registered as a palamino, and is that color, but she has white hairs mixed throughout her body like a roan. This causes her body to appear a lighter shade of yellow than her head and legs, which do not have the white hairs. I know that her sire was a buckskin and her mother is a red roan, which means she has the possibility of the roan gene. I have just never heard of a palamino roan. Does anyone have any information on this? Thanks.
 

Cathy
Posted From: 63.228.245.23
Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

There is no reason in the world your filly is not a palomino roan. Her parents are both red with a cream gene on one side, and a roan gene on the other. Sounds to me she is a roan palomino.
 

Angel
Posted From: 166.102.44.96
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 07:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks...I wonder why AQHA doesn't recognize it? Oh well, thanks again.
 

Anonymous
Posted From: 66.71.199.146
Posted on Monday, February 07, 2005 - 09:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Most gaited breeds recognize the palomino roan, thay call it "honey roan" I have seen a few, since they are light to start with, the roaning can be hard to see.
Traci
 

Rosalie (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted From: 4.131.74.49
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 03:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, I have a palomino mare that is bred to a black tovero stallion. I don't know the history of either horse. Can anyone tell me what color the foal would most likely be? Thanks.}
 

Joanna
Weanling
Username: Joanna

Post Number: 39
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 04:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

A black crossed with a palomino will give you the following colors: Black, chestnut, bay, smoky black, palomino, or buckskin.
Hope this helps.
Joanna
 

Kathee McGuire
Weanling
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 40
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 08:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is one for the group: A palomino crossed with a dun. I tried so make the little square to figure this out, but I got lost with all the cream and dun dilutes. I came up with eeaaCCDn+, eeaaCCcrDN+, eeaaCCDnd and eeaaCCcrDnd. Is this right and does it mean - 50% dun, 25% sorrel and 25% Palomino?

(Message edited by katheekj on January 22, 2006)
 

Cathy
Yearling
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 98
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 10:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathee what color dun is it?

(Message edited by Cathy on January 22, 2006)
 

Jenn
Weanling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 37
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Sunday, January 22, 2006 - 11:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Assuming the dun is a red dun, all foals from this combination would have a red base. On top of that would be cream and dun. 50% chance of getting the cream gene, 50% chance of the dun gene. The foal could recieve both the dun and cream genes in which case the foal would simply look like a palamino (cream on a red dun bleaches out the dun markins) so that means the odds of getting a palamino are slightly higher than getting a red dun. If the dun is not a red dun then ignore this.
 

Cathy
Yearling
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 99
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 12:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the Dun is in fact a red dun the % are 50/50. Dunalinos do show dun markings.
 

E Watkins
Weanling
Username: Evie

Post Number: 32
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 11:15 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Angel- I had a dun roan filly that sounds similar to your palomino. She was out of a grulla and a bay roan, she looked like a typical dun, but in the summer months particularly, she'd roan out and be almost the color of a peach. (except for her head which stayed golden dun) She sure stood out in a crowd with that coloring! (lucky little mare lives in Hawaii now !! ) QH does not recognize color combinations like that, but it does not mean they don't exist.
 

Kathee McGuire
Weanling
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 12:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy and Jenn - I knew I would forget something. He is what I call a traditional dun with a dark golden color. Am I correct in figuring that there is a 25% chance could produce a solid red horse?
 

Jenn
Weanling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 40
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 01:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy, you are correct. Upon further investigation I have found that sometimes (but not often) palaminos will show dun markings. Many times a horse that is believed to be a dunalino is actually a bay dun with the silver gene. The horse will appear to be a palamino dun and the only thing that usually gives it away is that the lower legs will be dark. This website explains and shows examples.
http://www.equinecolor.com/silver.html

Kathee - What color is his mane and tail? If they are basically the same color as his body he is a red dun. If his mane and tail are black he is probably a bay or buckskin dun. As for the chance of red, that is more difficult to figure because the combination contains 2 color altering genes that work independent of each other. I cannot put an accurate % on it but I think that the odds are less than 25% of getting a sorrel but a sorrel is definately possible.
 

Michelle Laughlin
Neonate
Username: Mlaughlin

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a sorrel mustang mare (parents unknown) that I am breeding to a Bay stallion (sire-black, dam-palomino). Can he pass the black or palomino genes on to a foal?
 

Kassie Finley
Yearling
Username: Jkqh

Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

he did not get the dilute gene from the mare, or he would be a buckskin or palomino. But he did get the Agouti gene and therefore he could pass on the black, if no solid black, a bay. But you could still get a sorrel since it looks like he would carry a red gene as well. I would say you will have the best chance of getting a bay or sorrel from that match. Hope that helps.
 

Kathee McGuire
Weanling
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 46
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenn - I would call him a bucksin dun. I only saw him once, but his marking were just like my first horse from 30 years ago. Coat color like a deer or a lion, black mane and tail, black dorsal stripe, black zebra stripes - my friend is the actual owner of the mare. I thought Duns carried a black gene becuase of the markings, but it is now my understanding that Duns are based from a red gene...do the black markings come strictly from the Dun gene?
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 103
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathee Dun is not based on a base color. It is a dilution gene which means it dilutes any base color, and the leg barring, facial cobwebbing and sholder bars do come from the dun gene.
 

Kathee McGuire
Weanling
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 11:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Please remember I am just learning this so pardon my inexperience...so that means that a dun can carry either the black or red gene. I don't know this stallion's lineage, but if he has a black gene, could it be dominate or does it have to be recessive? If it can be domniate, could he and a palomino produce a smokey black? My husband is buying me the Equine Color Genetics 2nd edition book for Valentines...much better than candy or flowers!
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 104
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathee I sure didn't meant to sound short. :-( I'm sorry.
You are going to love that book. It can be very technical, but covers the basics well. It is already out of date on some stuff though which isn't suprising most books on genetics have some stuff proven wrong before they hit the shelves. :-)
As far as dun goes it does not carry red or black. Think of it like you do cream. It changes the red or black to a different looking color. The difference with dun though is that the color doesn't change if it has 1 copy or 2.
If the stallion is not homozygous for dun or agouti you certainly can get a smokey black.
 

Kathee McGuire
Weanling
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 48
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I must have sent the wrong impression! You didn't sound short at all...I am just so unsure of myself that I don't want to sound stupid! I am really impressed by how much you (and others) know about this. Sounds like we are both compastionate people.
 

Jenn
Weanling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 44
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathee and Michelle, I highly recomend reading this website.
http://www.equinecolor.com/color.html
It can explain color genetics better than I can here, and it has pictures as well.

Kathee, dun markings come from the dun gene. Dun is not linked to any particular color. As to the question "do the black markings come strictly from the Dun gene?":
1.Dun markings are dorsal stripe, primative striping (zebra like) across the on the legs and/or across the withers, and (more rare) cobwebbing on their forehead. And a dun will show some or all of the markings.
2.Dun markings are usually the same color as the body of the horse just a few shade darker.
3.Black points, black mane, tail, lower legs and ear tips is caused by the agouti gene on a black base color (bay). This is not related at all to the dun gene. Also, the agouti gene has no effect on red based horses.

If you look at the web page there is a picture of a "Zebra Dun" (bay dun) and I am guessing that is what he is.
 

Kathee McGuire
Weanling
Username: Katheekj

Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 12:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Jenn... thanks. I have decided I am just not ready to keep up with the dilutes yet. It all makes sense, I just can't put it together on my own yet. I will have to read my book first and then maybe I will get better. Research is about half of my job and I am loving this info! In high school, I did my science fair on predicting the colors of mice...started with 1 male and 3 females and after 300 or 400 hundred babies, I was pretty good! Mom hated that project.
 

Jenn
Weanling
Username: Jenn

Post Number: 45
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This all takes time but if you have a good grasp of how genetics work you have a head start. The only thing that I have found to be 100% true in coat color genetics is you can never have it all figured out. There is always something out there that will prove you wrong.
 

Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris

Post Number: 67
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathee and E watkins- E Watkins-Your post from 1-23-06 you state that QH doesnt recognize dun roan combinations, however they do under the marking section. My dun filly is a dun roan. On her registration papers it says (under the markings area) "carries and expresses the roan gene".
All i had to do when i registered her was take a close enough photo of her face and body hairs to show she was indeed a roan (this was very evident at 6 1/2 months of age), and it was addressed on her papers. You can change registration papers if you feel it is necessary, (contact the registry to find out what they want to make the proof).
This may be helpful to you Kathee-
The next question was whether or not she was a dun or a grulla because of her primitive markings (dorsal, face cobwebbing, black modelingor barring on her neck,zebra striped legs, wither cross, and spine barring) so she was dna tested and found to carry 1 agouti gene which makes her a bay, and 1 cream gene to dilute the bay so she is said to be a buckskin dun roan (bay based with one cream gene, making her a buckskin, and with the dun markings making her a buckskin dun by color and dna) however the registry registers a buckskin dun as a dun so she is a buttermilk(because she is so light) "dun who carries and expresses the roan gene." photo taken at 9 months old with her mom[IMG]http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e222/krismoos/100_5231.jpg[/IMG]
if you are interested in dun colors read all the color websites you can find or type into your search "dun or buttermilk dun, or grulla," any of those will bring you to many sites that explain the dun scene pretty good.
it is a lot to handle, i kind of understand what color is what combo, but when they start to mix i get confused!
(I bred a sorrel to dun in hopes to get a dun, red dun or palomino...well see)
I apologize fo the long post...just call me long winded!
 

Kris Moos
Yearling
Username: Kris

Post Number: 68
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 07:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Kathee- I forgot to say i looked at my fillys pedigree, and 8/10 times when a dun crossed with a palamino on hers it resulted in a dun, the other times were sorrel and chestnut. This may or may not help you, as each horse is different and genetics work on lineage too, but just a thought for you.
 

Loki Feliciano
Neonate
Username: Loki

Post Number: 1
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Sunday, March 25, 2007 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If I breed my palomino appendix quarterhorse mare to a black homozygous andalusian stallion, what would you guess the percentages are that the foal will be black, palomino, or?
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 221
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

If the stallion is homozygous for black you can only get black based foals. That would be black and smokey black. If by chance your mare has the agouti gene. You could also get bay and buckskin.
 

jennifer kinser
Neonate
Username: Lazysummer

Post Number: 7
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi. I am new at this and my Palomino mare is having her first foal next month. She was bred to a bay and I was wondering how do you know if he is homozygous for black? I was also hoping to get an idea of the color of her foal. She has black hairs in her tail (almost 50% is black) and her main is all white. Thank you.
 

jennifer kinser
Neonate
Username: Lazysummer

Post Number: 8
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 10:51 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi. I just wanted to also ad that my palomino was bred by a gray and a bay, and the stallion was bred by a bay and a brown. So I am guessing that she will probably have a bay?
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 499
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Loki,
Depending on variables, you could get:
Smokey black, black, buckskin, bay, palomino, chestnut.

Jennifer,
Same as above..you get the same color probablities. W/out knowing the variables in genes, the above are the combinations for yours as well.
 

jennifer kinser
Neonate
Username: Lazysummer

Post Number: 9
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

heather,
Thank you. Do you believe though that bays are dominant? I guess I will just be surprised. I will just be happy if the foal is healthy.
 

jennifer kinser
Neonate
Username: Lazysummer

Post Number: 10
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 11:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does anyone know if corn cobs are okay for pregnant horses and yearlings? My husband wants to give some to them and I am not sure if it is okay
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 500
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 04:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bay, can be heterozygous or homozygous (dominant). Only way to tell is by testing for it. I think there are alot out there, but it's anyones guess in the abscence of testing.
If the stallion (if bay) has ever thrown a red foal, then no...it's not dominant. A sure way to know!
The best color is a "healthy" foal :-).

corn is ok, in appropriate quantity and if the horses are used to it.
I would be rather hesitant to give the "cob" to any horse though. A bit of a choking hazard.
If he wants to feed them something, give him a bag of carrots :-).
 

jennifer kinser
Nursing Foal
Username: Lazysummer

Post Number: 13
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 06:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you. This will be my mare's and this stallion's first time. Virgins! ha ha!!
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 222
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Monday, March 26, 2007 - 09:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heather
Loki said the stallion she is considering is homozygous black. I am curious how you came up with the possibility of palomino and chestnut?

Also the dominant agouti gene only affects black so if he produces a red foal it does not mean he is not homozygous for agouti. It means he is not homozygous for black.

(Message edited by Cathy on March 26, 2007)
 

Heather Kutyba
Breeding Stock
Username: Heatherck11

Post Number: 501
Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 12:13 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Cathy
Thanks for catching me :-). I appreciate that!
I stand corrected (Jennifer, listen to Cathy).

I probably should have been clearer about the dominant status. I was referring to the Red Factor gene. A bay horse that tests EE will not produce a sorrel/chestnut since they will always throw a black base.

What I am pretty interested in, is the coming genetics of the brown colored horse. AKA dark bay, seal brown, brown, and falsely called black on occasion. Some say it is a modifier attached to the agouti?
 

Cathy
Breeding Stock
Username: Cathy

Post Number: 223
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

What I am pretty interested in, is the coming genetics of the brown colored horse.


I agree I am also looking forward to what that reserch will show. I know the sooty gene is being claimed for some of it but the modifier is the strong possibility as far as I have read.
 

jennifer kinser
Nursing Foal
Username: Lazysummer

Post Number: 15
Registered: 03-2007
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 02:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Heather and Cathy.



Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

Proud to be sponsored and supported by:
IMV Technologies - makers of Equine AI Equipment
Equine A.I. Equipment Supplies
Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your Veterinary Ultrasounding Needs
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Exodus Breeders Supply - Your one-stop shop for all your reproductive needs!
Exodus Breeders Supply
Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products!
Reproduction Resources: Specializing in Artificial Breeding and Embryo Transfer Supplies
Specializing in Artificial Breeding and ET Supplies
BET Pharm: Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
Your Compounding Pharmacy for Reproductive Needs!
www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
  International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary Information Service
 

MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | SERVICES
FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS | LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD
SITEMAP | CONTACT US