MAIN PAGE
EQUINE REPRODUCTION ARTICLES
SHORT COURSES
ONE-ON-ONE TUITION
OTHER SERVICES AVAILABLE FROM EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
SEMEN EXPORT SERVICES
STALLIONS AT EQUINE-REPRODUCTION.COM
FROZEN SEMEN STALLIONS
CERTIFIED SEMEN FREEZING LOCATIONS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION SUPPLIES
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION LINKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST
EASILY CALCULATE THE CORRECT VOLUME OF SEMEN AND EXTENDER TO SHIP OR USE ON FARM!
EQUINE REPRODUCTION BULLETIN BOARD
CONTACT US


If you "like" us please "recommend" us!



and then:
Join us on Facebook! Join us on Facebook!


Proudly sponsored by:

Hamilton Research Inc - Home of the Equitainer
Hamilton Research Inc
Home of the Equitainer


Home of the world-famous INRA '96 extender!
Home of the world-famous
INRA '96 extender!


Universal Medical Systems Ultrasounds
For your veterinary
ultrasounding needs


Har-Vet: An Industry Leader in Equine Veterinary Products
An Industry Leader in
Equine Veterinary Products!


BET Pharm: Your compounding pharmacy for reproductive needs!
Your compounding pharmacy for
reproductive needs!


www.SemenTanks.com - Quality Tanks at Competitive Prices!
Quality Tanks at
Competitive Prices!


J.L. Smith Co. - Safe, affordable breeding stocks!
Safe, affordable
breeding stocks!


Here Today. There Today.
Here Today. There Today.


Saving Foals from FPT
Saving Foals from FPT


Egg Tech - serving European breeder's needs!
Egg Tech - serving
European breeder's needs!


International Veterinary Information Service
International Veterinary
Information Service






Please note that this records only identifiable - not all - hits!

Maiden mare problem

Discuss all kinds of problems encountered in breeding mares from not standing for live cover, through to not getting pregnant for unknown reasons!

Moderator: Jos

Maiden mare problem

Postby Moonshine » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:19 pm

Hello!!

I am new to this board and website, and thank you for all the great info on here!
I am new to breeding, and I did take a repro course, so am familiar with some reproductions topics etc.. I wanted to have the most information, and try to do the right thing to breed my mare.

So here it is, I purchased a maiden reg paint mare, she is 3 years old. Her heat cycles really show! when she gets in heat she is winking and peeing, and letting the young geldings mount her. I ordered some artificial semen, and inseminated her. at the time, the vet did not have the ultra sound, so we inseminated by palptations, her opening was 2 fingers at the time, and then did a second one the next day. the following day she had no more heat cycle showings.. on day 17, checked for pregnancy, nothing showed up. since, she coming back I heat, it was too short of a delay to re-order semen again, since I was importing from the states, and it is a week before getting appointment with usda. So anyhow, next cycle came around, got the semen, her follicle was at 40mm inseminated her, next day, follicle had ovulated, but inseminated her second dose. Her heat cycle showing went on for 4 more days! Anyhow, this is day 16 after ovulation, and she is showing some heat cycle, with gelding trying to tease and mount her. Could a very showing heat mare, show cycles after pregnant? or is she having trouble concieving? Will be getting her ultrasounded by end of week, but our vet is not that experienced yet, in ultrasounding, and pregnancys.. this is very confusing, and a little frustrating.. thanks a lot!!
Moonshine
Nursing Foal
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Moonshine » Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:37 pm

So no one knows, if mares that show heat very strongly, are the ones that will show heat cycles also after pregnancy? or does not really matter, silent mares, will start showing it after too?
:?:
Moonshine
Nursing Foal
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Jos » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:09 pm

About 10% of pregnant mares will display estrus ("heat") even though pregnant. Consequently, although it may be indicative of a non-pregnant mare, it is not definitive, and an ultrasound to evaluate pregnancy status is required.

In the event that your mare is not pregnant, and you decide to re-breed her, I would suggest that you have a pre-breeding evaluation performed by a veterinarian knowledgeable in equine reproduction, including a uterine culture and cytology - don't forget the cytology it's very important! (see: http://www.equine-reproduction.com/cytology ) And follow up the breeding with evaluation for uterine fluid and the use of oxytocin (http://www.equine-reproduction.com/oxytocin ). It may also be helpful for you to read the article at http://www.equine-reproduction.com/arti ... Mare.shtml whether your mare is older or not.
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
User avatar
Jos
Senior Stallion or Mare
 
Posts: 3948
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 am

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Moonshine » Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:31 pm

thank you for your reply, and links to the information! :D I will read, and if the case she is not pregnant will sit down with a vet, and discuss about the tests available.

But out of curiosity, in those 10% mares that show estrus after confirmed pregnancy, are these mares the ones that display very active loud heat cycles before pregnancy, or doesn't matter, it can be the silent ones, that start to show very loud heat cycles after pregnancy? thanks!
Moonshine
Nursing Foal
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Jos » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:15 pm

To the best of my knowledge and observation, there doesn't appear to be any correlation between pregnant mares displaying estrus and those who are normally demonstrative when not pregnant. This is also supported by the fact that - interestingly - "pregnant estrus" mares carry a higher percentage of filly foals.

BTW - if your vet is still learning about detecting pregnancy per ultrasound this article may prove useful for them (follow the link).
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
User avatar
Jos
Senior Stallion or Mare
 
Posts: 3948
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 am

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Moonshine » Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:56 am

hi there again! thank you for your valuable information. But she has lost her embryo. thursday when I brought her in, she had blood that oozed out of her vulva and on her leg. she was showing even more signs of being In heat, but not wanting the gelding to mount, and then yesterday, sunday, again she had more blood and yellow liquid that oozed out of her. my vet says she was finishing getting rid of what was left, so Thursday was day 19 after last insemination and ovulation. It seems she has trouble with the stage where the embryo wants to stick in uterus. I want to rebreed her one last time this season with a-I. but now with not sure on when heat cycle will return and usda appointment problems, I think I,ll have to induce her heat cycle? any thoughts on all of this? oh and vet passed ultra sound on the Friday, between these 2 blood loses, only saw liquid and line of blood. thank you!!
Moonshine
Nursing Foal
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Jos » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:59 am

So based upon what you have written, at the stage of evaluation (Friday) the mare was at day 20 after insemination? If so, blood presence would not be indicative of pregnancy loss. The embryo is minute at this stage and total embryonic blood presence is minimal. If you look at the ultrasound article I previously linked to (http://www.equine-reproduction.com/arti ... wentythree) you will see that a 23 day embryo's total length is 5.91 mm - that's less than a quarter of an inch, so clearly hardly any blood present. Further to that, there is no attachment of the embryonic structures to the uterus until around day 40. Up until that point the embryo is merely stationary in the uterus, but not attached, so again no reason for blood presence in the case of a loss. The blood presence is more likely to have been there from something like the gelding attempting to breed her (some geldings can and do breed mares, there's just no ensuing pregnancy!) - and incidentally if a pregnant mare does get bred (by a gelding or a stallion) there is a very real risk of pregnancy loss when the cervix is disturbed.

While I cannot comment on the actual pregnancy status of your mare, if what you have written was indeed what your veterinarian said, I would feel strongly inclined to seek a second opinion from one more experienced in equine reproductive matters, particularly before doing something drastic like short-cycling her.
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
User avatar
Jos
Senior Stallion or Mare
 
Posts: 3948
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 am

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Moonshine » Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:24 pm

Again, thank you for your valuable information, and time to give me a response. I will read your articles you have suggested.

But where would the blood come from? as already stated she was a maiden mare, we had did palpitations on her etc.. and inseminated her, so wouldn't the hymen be already broken? the vet had examined her insides and did not see any trauma, or where blood could of came from. so assumed it was from cervix, and flushing herself out. I know she said on the ultra sound there was a lot of liquid and she could not see any "fetus" (forget the term at this stage) and a line of blood inside. So if there is still a chance she is pregnant, and we short cycle her, she could lose it? The vet is coming back again tomorrow, because I want to recheck her, and see if the "false" follicle she had seen is gone, and then decide on the date of giving prostaglandin. Also, I want to make sure she is clean before starting all this. So maybe we should recheck for embryo? Is there another test that would be even more accurate instead of ultrasound? blood test? urine test?(is that is possible) She has not been showing any more signs of heat as of today. Which is very short, usually it would be 10 days, and now about 6-7 days. thank you!
Moonshine
Nursing Foal
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Moonshine » Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:26 pm

oh and also, this time I did not see any edema..
Moonshine
Nursing Foal
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:08 pm

Re: Maiden mare problem

Postby Jos » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:25 am

  • A "line of blood" would not be definable by ultrasound.
  • Mares do not "flush themselves out" following early embryonic death.
  • There is no blood loss during early embryonic death.
  • Follicular presence during pregnancy is perfectly normal - there is no such thing as a false follicle.
  • If the mare is less than 35 days pregnant and received prostaglandin, there will be a pregnancy loss rate close to 100%.

If this were me and I was hearing my vet say these things, I would feel more comfortable receiving a second opinion from a different vet.
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
User avatar
Jos
Senior Stallion or Mare
 
Posts: 3948
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 am

Next

Return to Breeding Problem Mares

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Please note that opinions, product information, advice or suggestions posted on this bulletin board are not necessarily those of the management at Equine-Reproduction.com nor does the maintenance of the post position indicate an implicit or any endorsement of that information, opinion or product.

Further, although we have the greatest respect for the posters offering assistance here, you are advised to seek a consultation with your veterinarian prior to using information obtained from this board if it is of a veterinary nature.

cron



MAIN PAGE | INFORMATIONAL ARTICLES | SHORTCOURSES | INDIVIDUAL TUITION | SERVICES | LINKS
SEMEN EXPORT | STALLION STATION | FROZEN STALLIONS | FREEZING LOCATIONS | SUPPLIES | BOOKS
EQUINE REPRODUCTION E-MAIL LIST | SEMEN CALCULATOR | BULLETIN BOARD | CONTACT US