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P&E with fresh cooled, and oxytocin questions

Discuss tips and tricks used in live cover and AI situations.

Moderator: Jos

P&E with fresh cooled, and oxytocin questions

Postby EricaDVM » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:15 am

I am a small animal veterinarian, and am managing my own mare this year, who has given me two previously healthy foals with no "drama". :) This year, I would like to try to use P&E without ultrasounding until the pregnancy check. I know that some of your clients have done that for frozen, and since I will be using fresh I hope that's worth a go! Could you please have a look at my plan and provide feedback?

Day 1 or days 1-10: P&E. The mare is great about injections and doesn't mind being stuck every day, but the BioRelease product would make life easier for both of us. In my situation do you have a strong preference toward the daily injections? Also, Rood and Riddle's compounding pharmacy has a sale on both products; they use the term "BioRelease" and I have been told that they buy the vehicle from BET. Any experience with this?

I will do microdose (0.1ml) PGF2a IM on day 9 and day 10. (1200ish pound warmblood mare).

Day 18 at 5pm: HCG - have a source for Chorulon, and plan to give 2500U IV. Is there any need to adjust back a day to make sure the follicle is large enough to respond since I'm not ultrasounding, and does this depend on whether I use BioRelease or regular P&E?

24 hours later: breed

16 hours after that: breed

The mare is 13, and I will definitely do oxytocin since that's 2 inseminations relatively close together. Does the BioRelease oxytocin last about 24 hours? I plan to wait 4-6 hours after the first breeding to start oxytocin. If I give a dose of the BR at that time, will it interfere with the following morning's breeding? Is it better to start the BR oxytocin after the second breeding?

Also, I know that P&E won't work if the mare is still transitional. Without ultrasound is there any way to tell? Or just start the protocol and hope for the best?

And if I hold my tongue just right will the "bay colt" swimmers win? ;) JK!
EricaDVM
Neonate
 
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Re: P&E with fresh cooled, and oxytocin questions

Postby Jos » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:49 pm

EricaDVM wrote:Day 1 or days 1-10: P&E. The mare is great about injections and doesn't mind being stuck every day, but the BioRelease product would make life easier for both of us. In my situation do you have a strong preference toward the daily injections?


The daily injection protocol does produce a tighter pattern of follicular development and ovulation than does the biorelease formulation. There was actually a paper just published in JEVS that looked at biorelease P&E and commented: "...ovulation synchrony was satisfactory in group 2 mares (interval to ovulation being 20.4 ± 1.5 days, range 17-22 days)" Efficacy of Long-Acting Formulations of Estradiol or Progesterone Plus Estradiol on Estrous Synchronization in Broodmares A.K. Sudderth, A.M. Kiser, S.P. Brinsko, C.C. Love, D.D. Varner, P.J. Burns, T.L. Blanchard Journal of Equine Veterinary Science 4 March 2013 - this compared with research (the citation of which I cannot remember!) which demonstrated that the daily dose had a high pattern of >=35 mm follicles at 18 days.

Having said that, in personal communication from the late Pat Burns (who was an author of the above paper), the biorelease Altrenogest from BET Pharm has shown a good tight pattern and is what we typically use. We do however still ultrasound or palpate.

One other point I would add to this part of your protocol given your circumstances would be to either tease the mare or vaginally check the cervix for relaxation from about day 15 overall of treatment. You want to make sure that the mare does indeed come into estrus!! A small percentage do not, and the last thing you want to do is to put semen in a diestrus uterus!! :8:

Also, Rood and Riddle's compounding pharmacy has a sale on both products; they use the term "BioRelease" and I have been told that they buy the vehicle from BET. Any experience with this?


As we use BET Pharm, I can't really comment with accuracy, although of course as Rood and Riddle are well respected, so if they say they are using the Biotechnology's agent, I'm sure they are!! :)

Day 18 at 5pm: HCG - have a source for Chorulon, and plan to give 2500U IV. Is there any need to adjust back a day to make sure the follicle is large enough to respond since I'm not ultrasounding, and does this depend on whether I use BioRelease or regular P&E?


You might want to contemplate using BET Pharm's Histrelin (this is starting to sound like an ad for BET Pharm! Sorry!! :) ). The advantage of that is that it will tend to have a promoting effect on follicles smaller than 35 mm, so if there is a deviance on the smaller side, you might be covered. Sucromate also will tend to have that effect.

24 hours later: breed

16 hours after that: breed


No need to breed 16 hours after the first insemination if you are using cooled semen (you need to with frozen owing the the limited duration of viability of thawed frozen sperm) - and in fact you would be better off not doing in order to avoid inseminating during the peak of the inflammatory response. I would wait until 24 hours after the first insemination before inseminating the second dose.

Does the BioRelease oxytocin last about 24 hours?


Research has shown that systemic levels remain elevated above base line for 4 hours following administration and clinicians have reported ongoing contractions for up to 6 hours. Consequently most people are using it every 12 hours.

I plan to wait 4-6 hours after the first breeding to start oxytocin. If I give a dose of the BR at that time, will it interfere with the following morning's breeding? Is it better to start the BR oxytocin after the second breeding?


No interference as it's 4-6 hours in duration, and in any case we moved that second insemination out to 24 hours after the first! :)

Also, I know that P&E won't work if the mare is still transitional. Without ultrasound is there any way to tell? Or just start the protocol and hope for the best?


I would recommend against using it unless the mare has ovulated (i.e. is not transitional) as in rare cases, we have seen mares shut down completely for the breeding season when they have been treated prior tot he first ovulation of the year. Progesterone assays are your friend though! :) Pull blood and run the assay and as long as you get a result >1 ng/ml then you know she's got a functional CL (and therefore is not transitional). You may need to do it weekly until you get that elevated level.

And if I hold my tongue just right will the "bay colt" swimmers win? ;) JK!


This will only work if you actually insert your tongue in your left nostril while performing the insemination, so hopefully you have a long tongue. Make sure it's the left. Right nostril = chestnut filly.

Good luck!!
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Re: P&E with fresh cooled, and oxytocin questions

Postby EricaDVM » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:18 pm

Jos, thank you very much for your very helpful reply. Blood work is free for DVMs through my reference lab, but ultrasounds are not free from my friendly local equine practitioner, so I pulled a progesterone this morning and will go from there. :)
EricaDVM
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Re: P&E with fresh cooled, and oxytocin questions

Postby EricaDVM » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:32 am

Progesterone pulled yesterday was 3.6ng/mL so I'm ready to start hormonal manipulation. Academic question: if >1ng/ml indicates a function CL, do I even need to give the P&E? Could I start with PGF2a today and tomorrow, and consider this day 9 and 10 in my protocol? Thanks, Jos! Hope you're having a good breeding season so far.
EricaDVM
Neonate
 
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Re: P&E with fresh cooled, and oxytocin questions

Postby Jos » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:06 am

EricaDVM wrote:if >1ng/ml indicates a function CL, do I even need to give the P&E?

It will depend upon how much monitoring you want to / are capable of do[ing].

Read our article about why prostaglandin may not work for more details, but in short form, using PGF2α will not "pinpoint" ovulation to the same degree that P&E will. Your range of ovulation will be somewhere between 1 and 20 days. If one can palpate/ultrasound, then yes, go ahead, but if you're looking at breeding based solely on timing it will be less reliable. Having said that, if you have a stallion with which to tease, you may also be OK - just start teasing the day after using the PGF2α in case she comes into estrus rapidly, and then breed on day 3 and 5 (and if necessary 7) of standing estrus.
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
User avatar
Jos
Senior Stallion or Mare
 
Posts: 3948
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 am

Re: P&E with fresh cooled, and oxytocin questions

Postby EricaDVM » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:29 am

No stallion, so hormones it is! Thanks.
EricaDVM
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