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problem stallion

Discuss tips and tricks used in live cover and AI situations.

Moderator: Jos

problem stallion

Postby woshorses » Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:17 pm

Dear Jos can you help, I have a 21 year old stallion that has covered mares naturally all his life.I have tried to get him to use a colorado A.V but with limited success. Libido is fine, jumping on dummy is fine,he thrusts very well in the A.V but failes to ejaculate. We tried a jump mare but same story.
The horse is very good and quick to cover naturally,we have tried temp from 37c to 50c and different pressures. It seams as if we cannot provide the trigger that a mare does .Have you any ideas and what would you think of chemical ejaculation.
Thank you
woshorses
Neonate
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:12 pm

Re: problem stallion

Postby Jos » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:16 pm

Reasons for failure to ejaculate can be broken down in three categories:

  • Psychological
  • Physiological
  • Environmental
They are pretty self-explanatory, and one has to look at the situation through the stallion's eyes with that in mind to try and come up with a reason for the failure.

Certainly with an older stallion that has only bred live-cover all his life, the sudden change to an AV can be a huge adjustment, but in my experience most will make that change - especially if one is using a jump mare rather than a mount.

Stallions in this category will have a tendency to prefer a cooler and loser AV, but that is not absolute. If you feel you have tried that combination adequately, go to the other end of the spectrum and try an AV that has a lumen temperature of 54°C. This will typically require water that is at around 60° at the time of filling. If the stallion squeals and withdraws rapidly, you know that it was too hot for his liking. Many however will respond favourably.

There really is no secret recipe and it is a matter of playing around until the magic combination is found. AV temperature and pressure are varied, as is the amount of movement with the AV - some like it absolutely stationary, while others prefer a little intermittent jiggling.

Chemical ejaculation may work, but it is important to remember that it works 70% of the time in 70% of stallions, so statistically about half the time. In other words, it is not a cure-all panacea. What you might talk to your vet about is using the pre-med portion of the chemical collection protocol and giving your stallion some Imipramine, and then attempting an AV collection a couple of hours after that, as Imipramine lowers the ejaculatory threshold, so possibly that could get the stallion to ejaculate successfully.

Other than that, I can't really comment too much as you haven't given me any really detailed information about what is happening. If you can describe his response in detail, I might be able to pinpoint an issue a little closer.

I'd start by increasing the internal temperature of the AV to 54°C though, and see what that does.
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Jos
Senior Stallion or Mare
 
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Re: problem stallion

Postby lotsofponies » Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:19 pm

I feel your pain. I hope you figure him out.

Had an issue with my new pony stallion that had only pasture bred and never with someone on the end of a lead. Since he was quite a bit smaller than my other 2 boys I had to make him his very own little AV (colorado style) that was 10" long so he could flare at the end, he didn't like the 13" AV. He also liked it if placed my hand at the end of the AV so the head his penis had something to press againt plus it help you to tell if he actually did something. The other thing was at first I didn't use a liner until he got the hang of it and I filled the AV tight(which caused him to rip the liner), he needed it real tight at first. Since I wasn't going to use the semen, I taped a glove/sleeve over the end of the AV to collect it to make sure he ejaculated semen.
lotsofponies
Weanling
 
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Re: problem stallion

Postby woshorses » Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:37 am

Dear Jos and Lotsofponies, thanks very much for the help and advice. I have not done anything since with the stallion,when I have weighed up all the options I will try again and keep ye posted.
Thanks
woshorses
Neonate
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:12 pm

Re: problem stallion

Postby Ashenvale » Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:17 pm

woshorses - are you usin a liner?

I know that some stallions object to this and if the AV is just for him, you could think about not using a liner for the time being and see how he reacts?

Also, sometimes it is helpful to hold the stallion in the AV and use a firm hand and squeeze, they seem to like this also.
Ashenvale
Nursing Foal
 
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Re: problem stallion

Postby Jos » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:03 pm

We always use a disposable liner and we have collected from hundreds of different stallions and never had one have an insurmountable issue with the liner... :)

One of the issues we commonly see with people who have a problem when using a disposable liner is that the AV is too cold. Think about this - if you're washing dishes wearing rubber gloves, the water doesn't seem as hot. Same thing with the DL, so make the water a little warmer than normal.
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
User avatar
Jos
Senior Stallion or Mare
 
Posts: 3948
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 am

Re: problem stallion

Postby Ashenvale » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:43 pm

Very good point Jos.

Not a problem I have previously had myself but just through feedback from other people but like you say thats a very valid point.
Ashenvale
Nursing Foal
 
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