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Loss past the 35 day mark.

Sometimes the pregnancy doesn't go as expected and the foal is lost. Here you can share information and perhaps learn why it happened and/or how to prevent a reocurrence.

Moderator: Jos

Loss past the 35 day mark.

Postby formosus » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:35 am

Mare aborted sometime between 45 days and 65 days.
Anything we can do to bring her back into heat?
We will do a culture and a biopsy but wondering if there is anything we can do hormonally to get her to cycle again now that the endometrial cups have doubtless formed although we don't know when she lost the pregnancy exactly...
formosus
Weanling
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Loss past the 35 day mark.

Postby Jos » Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:52 pm

Before commenting on anything else, I would like to stress the possibility of the importance of checking the mare again before doing anything drastic like trying to get her cycling again. As I presume that the mare was at around 65 days of (previous) pregnancy when checked, it is important to be aware of the fact that at this stage, she has entered the period of time when the weight of the fetus can cause it to drop over the pelvic brim and into the abdomen and out of the reach of the ultrasonographer/palpator. Many mares have been pronounced "not in foal" at this point in error! Blood tests at this stage are invalid in this situation, as they test for eCG - secreted by the endometrial cups even in the absence of a pregnancy (false positive). The only way to be sure therefore it to actually visualize the pregnancy, and if one cannot do that, it still might not mean she's not pregnant.

As there is little that can easily be done at this point with a high degree of reliability to cause return to estrus, it might be best to wait another 25-35 days and perform an estrogen/estrone sulfate test at around 100-120 days (the further towards 120 days the more reliable it is likely to be).

Repeated treatments of PGF2α - 3 or 4 a day for 3 or 4 days in a row - have been seen to in some cases cause a mare to return to estrus, but often these estrus are less than reliably fertile. On top of that, multiple doses of PGF2α is hard on the mare... :(

If it were me, I think I would wait a little and check again using the estrogen assay at about 110-120 days. If she's confirmed not in foal at that point, then you stand a better chance of getting a return to estrus with PGF2α (although I recognize it's getting late in the year).

If she is not in foal, definitely have an endometrial biopsy performed, as one of the common causes of pregnancy loss after about 40 days is endometrial fibrosis. If that is identified, then you might want to discuss a DMSO lavage with your veterinarian, as they have been shown to be beneficial in reducing endometrial fibrotic issues (Ley et. al.).
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Jos
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Re: Loss past the 35 day mark.

Postby formosus » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:00 am

Awesome Jos,
Thanks for taking the time to provide a detailed answer.
I'm afraid that the loss of pregnancy is confirmed. Ultrasound at 60 days showed a disorganized pregnancy vesicule with no fetal heartbeat and 5 days later it was all gone.
:(
We shall declare her open for the season, I think it would be too late to rebreed even with intervention.
We shall do culture and biopsy before trying to breed her again.
formosus
Weanling
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Loss past the 35 day mark.

Postby Jos » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:13 pm

I'm always a little hinky with these kinds of findings, as I have seem multiple mares abort the next spring after having a
"pre-breeding" uterine swab taken, even though being declared "absolutely, no way in foal" the previous year...

Please, please check the mare's pregnancy status again before having any intra-uterine diagnostics performed next year.

Obviously I can't comment on what was seen (not having seen it!!), but the umbilicus can be visualised per ultrasound at this stage and can present some weird structures, and then not be visible on a subsequent ultrasound...

Image
Umbilical Presence at 65 days

Image
Cross-section of Umbilicus at 125 days
(fetal ribs also visible)
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Jos
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Re: Loss past the 35 day mark.

Postby formosus » Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:57 pm

Point taken, we shall check her before doing anything drastic. I can't ultrasound her myself since she is not in my yard at the moment and I'm not sure how experience the vet was with ultrasound at this stage .
formosus
Weanling
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Loss past the 35 day mark.

Postby formosus » Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:15 pm

Correction (like I said she is not in my yard, she was leased).
First ultrasound was at 76 days (showing disorganization) follow up ultrasound was at 81 days (could not find anything).
Hummm...
Very suspicious, I think I will invest in a visit by my vet (who has very long arms....)
formosus
Weanling
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Loss past the 35 day mark.

Postby formosus » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:45 am

Ok,
I talked to the person that did the ultrasound and while now the outcome is without doubts it raises other questions.
Mare was "75" days along, or 75 day post breeding live cover with no return to estrus in the 35 days after that cover to be precise.
The uterus felt pregnant on palpation but the the ultrasound revealed an involuted (membranes folded on themselves) vessicule of about 30 mm in diameter at the base of the right uterine horn.
By day 81 the vesicule was gone.

Wow.
Learn something all the time.
So the pregnancy started and then stalled, the vesicule never grew or grew and then regressed and was finally expelled?
No way to know when it all happened so really wondering if endometrial cups formed and if the mare will return to estrus or not....
:^^
formosus
Weanling
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:24 pm


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