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What's Going on Here?

Sometimes the pregnancy doesn't go as expected and the foal is lost. Here you can share information and perhaps learn why it happened and/or how to prevent a reocurrence.

Moderator: Jos

What's Going on Here?

Postby Todd64 » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:27 pm

I bred my 6 yr old maiden mare back around March 15th (give or take a few days). We had her AI with Frozen Semen. Back in October we took her and had the uterine cytology and all of that done and everything came back normal and looked good. At 19 days we had her ultrasounded. She checked in foal and everything looked perfect. the embryo was perfectly round on the ultrasound screen and the vet said everything looked great. At 49 days we took her back to get another ultrasound and she had lost it. She was starting to come into heat so we gave her the estrumate to bring her into heat quicker and we re-bred her probably a week later if that long. 5 days after we bred her my vet wanted to put her on Regumate, 12cc. So I have been giving her 12cc of Regumate since. Yesterday I took her back to the vet for her 17 day ultrasound. She checked in foal again, but the vet is not happy with how it looks. I didn't see this one as I was holding my mare, but my mom saw it and she said that on the ultrasound screen it was shaped like a peanut. Instead of being a round black circle with the white "mushroom" looking thing it was a black peanut. So my vet told me to up her Regumate dose to 15cc and then I'm supposed to go back in a week and see what it looks like and if she lost it or not. They said that it wasn't nothing wrong with the stallion and that it was my mare. But they said it was kind of weird, considering she is getting preg on the first try using Frozen and her Follicles get really big, and she shows no signs of edema or anything. They wouldn't give me an exact percentage but said it was less than a 50% chance that she is going to keep this one and not abort it.

Does anyone know what can cause this?
Todd64
Neonate
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:18 am

Re: What's Going on Here?

Postby Jos » Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:39 pm

I have some problems with some of thie things that you say your vet is telling you:

Todd64 wrote:At 19 days ... the embryo was perfectly round on the ultrasound screen


While not impossible, this is unusual. Most conceptuses lose their regularity of shape at about 17 days. Please see our article showing equine pregnancy ultrasound images. You will note the sharp loss of shape that occurs typically at about 17 days.

At 49 days we took her back to get another ultrasound and she had lost it. She was starting to come into heat so we gave her the estrumate to bring her into heat quicker and we re-bred her probably a week later if that long.


If a mare is returning to estrus ("heat") 49 days after an ovulation that resulted in a pregnancy, then she must have lost the pregnancy prior to about 35 days. If lost after that point, mares will typically not return to estrus until around 100 or more days after the initial ovulation.

If a mare is in the process of returning to estrus, then she clearly has a large "dominant" follicle present. If that is the case, then the use of a prostaglandin such as Estrumate is contra-indicated as it can rapidly accelerate follicular growth and pregnancy rates in those circumstances have been shown to be 50% of what a normally occurring estrus is following prostaglandin treatment.

5 days after we bred her my vet wanted to put her on Regumate, 12cc.
See our article on progestin supplementation for details on the (ab)use of Regumate. It does not replace good diagnostic techniques.

17 day ultrasound. She checked in foal again, but the vet is not happy with how it looks. I didn't see this one as I was holding my mare, but my mom saw it and she said that on the ultrasound screen it was shaped like a peanut. Instead of being a round black circle with the white "mushroom" looking thing it was a black peanut. So my vet told me to up her Regumate dose to 15cc and then I'm supposed to go back in a week and see what it looks like and if she lost it or not.


See above re: the shape of the conceptus. If you read the linked article, you will also see we discuss the "white disc" which I believe you are referencing as a "white mushroom looking thing" - which doesn't actually exist! It's an artefact of ultrasonography called a "spectral reflection" and as it doesn't really exist, has nothing to do with a pregnancy (or not!)!!

They said that it wasn't nothing wrong with the stallion and that it was my mare. But they said it was kind of weird, considering she is getting preg on the first try using Frozen and her Follicles get really big, and she shows no signs of edema or anything.


While it is true that most breeding issues are more likely to be related to the mare, there are issues that can relate to the stallion and result in pregnancy loss, so that's not entirely true either. Additionally, if the mare is not developing edema, then she is not truly in estrus, as mares in estrus develop edema. If she is being bred in the absence of edema, that is another major issue.

They wouldn't give me an exact percentage but said it was less than a 50% chance that she is going to keep this one and not abort it.


Given that a good percentage of the things that you attribute to your vet saying are blatantly incorrect, you might want to seek a second opinion from a different vet if that is indeed what you are being told... :(
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Jos
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Re: What's Going on Here?

Postby Todd64 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:31 am

Thanks for the reply! I've been reading the info you sent me. I go back to the vet today she should be 27 days along. I'll let you know what they say about her.
Todd64
Neonate
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:18 am


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