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Mare making bag too early

Sometimes the pregnancy doesn't go as expected and the foal is lost. Here you can share information and perhaps learn why it happened and/or how to prevent a reocurrence.

Moderator: Jos

Mare making bag too early

Postby mid-western » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:55 pm

One of our better mares is starting to make a bag and her "due date" is May 24. (I know there is no true "due date") Nevertheless, it is WAY too early in her pregnancy for her to be making a bag.

She had been moved to a lot right behind the barn (about 2 weeks ago) with another older mare and we have been giving them both alfalfa cubes. They are also getting high quality hay as well...they were getting grass hay before.

Is it possible that the higher protein she is now getting could contribute to her bagging up? My fear is Placentitis so we started her on 10 SMZ pills 2X a day and 10cc Banamine for 3 days. I have heard that 2-3cc of ECP for 3 days might be considered...The mare is also on weekly Progesterone shots, due to her having a low progesterone level earlier in her pregnancy, so we kept her on the shots.

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Change is inevitable....but success is optional!
mid-western
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Location: Indiana

Re: Mare making bag too early

Postby Jos » Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:14 am

Get your vet out ASAP and check the CTUP. This should confirm placentitis, if present.

Banamine is recommended for suppression of prostaglandin release.

Use of Pentoxifylline has been shown to be beneficial in cases of placentitis, as has estrogen (you mention ECP). Estradiol 17β is more rapidly accessible by the body, but ECP lasts longer, so if you have access to estradiol 17β you might want to start with that.

If you are not using long-acting progesterone (biorelease) - not Depo-provera - then daily Regumate should be used as it is valuable for dealing with potential pregnancy loss through placentitis by closing the cervix more tightly, preventing further pathogenic access (it will not prevent abortion of it's going to happen though... which leads one to a discussion about progestin supplementation during pregnancy, which I am not going to get into now, but please do read that article, in particular with reference to "low" progesterone levels - especially from 100 days onwards).

Note that premature mammary development is typically a precursor to abortion from any cause (including twinning), not just placentitis, but get the vet out ASAP (or sooner) to check...
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Re: Mare making bag too early

Postby mid-western » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:52 pm

We had our vet out today, to give a baby with a low IgG plasma, so we had him to check the CTUP again. The measurement was in the normal range (12cm) and he thought the mare was doing OK. Her bag seems to be decreasing somewhat (I think) and she never developed any sort of discharge. She is still on the SMZ pills.(He had said to give them for 30 days) We are hoping she will carry to term. She was a very good race mare and has produced stakes winners. One of her daughters is now a broodmare in Ohio as well.
Change is inevitable....but success is optional!
mid-western
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Location: Indiana

Re: Mare making bag too early

Postby Jos » Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:29 pm

In cases of placentitis is it generally recommended to keep the mare on the antibiotics until foaling, and to treat the foal as a high-risk foal that has already been exposed to a pathogen at birth (to protect against neonatal septicaemia).
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Re: Mare making bag too early

Postby SatinDreamer » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:22 pm

Hello! I am new here and tho I havent ever posted I have always read many of the post and used all your insights.
I have a problem I am hoping that you all can help me with. It is a very difficult and detailed issues with twists and turns I am trying to decipher!

Oh I bought a mare a few years ago to breed to my stallion. When I got her she was SUPPOSEDLY a maid and had never been exposed to a stallion. HOWEVER I found a stallion listing report that the woman HAD exposed this mare to a stallion but there was no resulting registered foal. So I do not know if she took, foaled or miscarried.

I bred her in 2012 to my stallion on May 19th thru the 23rd. I teased her on May 31st and she was back in heat so I bred her again on June 1st thru the 5th. I again teased her at the 290th thru the 26th and had no heat signs. So know she had taken. Then in Feb of 2013 she started to BAG, I freaked out I put her immediately on Uniprim for placentitis.I did this because maybe thats why the lady I got her from lied and she lost a baby and didnt want me to know? She reduced SLIGHTLY and never had any signs of discharge or anything. She foaled a perfectly healthy colt of good weight and size on April 24th. EARLY for what would have been her 1st breed day of 23 day and 3 days if by her second breed date. She had perfect colostrum and milk production and seemed a perfect foaling.
I then bred mare back on May 19th and 20th and she dropped right out of heat. I teased her again on June 3rd and had heat signs so bred again on June 4th thru 8th and she dropped out, teased again on June 22nd and seen heat so bred again on June 24th thru 29th and then teased every day for a month after 14 days with no heat. So knew she finally settled.

Now she again is having bag changes not really bagging but changing much to early for her last breed day. I am watching and waiting and it has held at the same for 6 weeks with no progression and no other signs of placentitis but the early bag. However we have put her on a another run of antibiotics as a preventive just in case.

I did not ultrasound because my vet that I have is not experienced enough to make the cost worth it. I let my stallion tell me when I have a mare in foal. And it has always worked for years for me.

So has anyone ever had this and or had a mare start making bag changes that early with no realy issues and is placentitis always accompanied with vaginal discharge or not? I have tried and tried to find that out but it is kind of a foggy point!


Thank you all for any insight on this. Im so confused on this mare. and not sure how much I should stress this! Only mare I have like this but I do have a mare that retains a sizable bag bred or not so I just dont know! LOL
SatinDreamer
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Re: Mare making bag too early

Postby SatinDreamer » Sat Feb 15, 2014 3:39 pm

In addition I never had to give her any regamate and no banimine with the antibiotics last year and only gave her 2 weeks of antibiotics. I feel like if it had been a true placentitis this may not have been enough? I know that is part of the protocol but since she never progressed to any other signs but the bagging the vet said to not do it until we had reason too. Again this year she shows no signs of discharge, fever, attitude change or lethargy. She is perfect in all ways except for bag changes she shouldnt have yet. And I do know that baby last year was early but could have been in the safe zone on either of the breeding dates. And because I do not know if she truly was a maiden I feel like that it could be completely normal for early baby. Also my stallion has always settled mares on their 1st cycle most times in even one breeding so I feel like she is just a hussy! And the bagging may just be her norm. Im just so dang confused and my vet is more of a cattle vet and tho is trying to help me is about as confused as me.
SatinDreamer
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Re: Mare making bag too early

Postby Jos » Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:25 pm

Unfortunately, because you did not have your mare checked by ultrasound to determine pregnancy status, you have no idea when she got pregnant; if she got pregnant; or if she is carrying twins.

About 10% of mares still show heat when they are pregnant, so your mare could be pregnant from the first breeding.
Some mares will not display heat even though they are not pregnant, so she might not be pregnant, or could have been pregnant from an earlier breeding date and then lost the pregnancy owing to being rebred. If this happened after she was about 35 days pregnant, she would not return to heat when teased for about 100 days.
She could be carrying twins and be aborting.
She could have placentitis and need treatment.
She might be fine.

You need to have the mare checked by a competent veterinarian with an ultrasound. We cannot assist here and would be potentially misleading you in a way very damaging to your mare and her foal (if there is one) by attempting to do so... :(

Good luck.
We're always happy to try and help, but don't forget to check the articles section
of the website too, which has a search engine to help you look for answers!
:)
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:11 am

Re: Mare making bag too early

Postby SatinDreamer » Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:55 pm

yeah thanks, I know all that my question was mostly had anyone had a mare take on 1st breeding but then take breeding again for the 1st couple cycles. Kinda like a woman having her monthly during a pregnancy. Most people I know that own stallions use their stallions to tease back and will breed if the mare allows until she wont. And THEN ultra sound at 16 days. I honestly think she is fine and its just her norm but was looking for possible other instances of mares that have bag changes early with NO issues. Because my vet see's nothing but slight bag changes and is only treating with the antibiotics for my comfort of doing something preventive. I have a mare that has a bag as big or even bigger that isnt even bred this year and always does. So that was all I was basically wondering those 2 things I HAVE had a vet out and am doing what I am told told is a course right now with what she is showing. Not really asking for what to do, just had any others had any similar experiences. But Thank you for your response :)
SatinDreamer
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